How an Undocumented Immigrant from Mexico Became a Star at Goldman Sachs • Hacker News Board

Re: How an Undocumented Immigrant from Mexico Became a Star at Goldman Sachs

#31

Post by tdees40 » Wed, Feb 25, 2015, 4:47 PM UTC

sparkzilla wrote: post #15

She should have gone through the process like everyone else. I invested hundreds of thousands of dollars in my business to get a visa, spending all of that money on American suppliers and employing Americans. Now that the business failed I have to leave the U.S., taking my kids out of their schools, and start the process all over again, taking even more time, expense and disruption. But I am not going to break the la…

She came over when she was 14. The whole problem is that there is no process for her.

Re: How an Undocumented Immigrant from Mexico Became a Star at Goldman Sachs

#32

Post by PhoenixWright » Wed, Feb 25, 2015, 4:49 PM UTC

sparkzilla wrote: post #15

She should have gone through the process like everyone else. I invested hundreds of thousands of dollars in my business to get a visa, spending all of that money on American suppliers and employing Americans. Now that the business failed I have to leave the U.S., taking my kids out of their schools, and start the process all over again, taking even more time, expense and disruption. But I am not going to break the la…

I invested hundreds of thousands of dollars in my business to get a visa.

This option is not available to everyone. I don't think you should have to spend that much in order to come to the U.S. But I also wouldn't blame someone without those resources trying to better themselves in any way possible.

Re: How an Undocumented Immigrant from Mexico Became a Star at Goldman Sachs

#33

Post by tdees40 » Wed, Feb 25, 2015, 4:50 PM UTC

wtbob wrote: post #29

I hate the phrase 'undocumented immigrant.' It's not like she had some documents and—whoops!—lost them. She had documents from Mexico (presumably); she had expired documents from the United States. She was an alien whose residence in the United States was illegal; the phrase 'illegal alien' is completely accurate. The phrase 'illegal immigrant' is also accurate in her case, since she intended to stay here for good. >…

Crimes are what we decide they are! Criminalizing this sort of behavior is something that most Americans don't want [1]. Expecting someone to be ashamed for violating a law that isn't particularly popular seems silly. Should Uber be ashamed for violating taxi regulations, when those regulations are hated by consumers?

[1] http://americasvoice.org/blog/fox-news-poll-confirms-path-to...

Re: How an Undocumented Immigrant from Mexico Became a Star at Goldman Sachs

#34

Post by spiralpolitik » Wed, Feb 25, 2015, 4:52 PM UTC

hyperliner wrote: post #21

huherto wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> America try to have it both ways by "not wanting them" but "wanting the cheap tomatoes at the supermarket." That is for another thread. Increased security at the border is keeping people in the USA. They would return to their families if they could, but they have to stay here because crossing back and forth is too dangerous. They should be able to come to the farms in the USA seasonally, help and go back to their f…

That seems to be a formal, properly managed program with a specific need. I was referring to both sides of the argument: people simply skip the line too, which screws people who stood in an orderly line. So with both sides screwed up (people skipping the line and Americans going "I dont want them but I want the cheap produce and the cheap nanny"), no wonder it is a free for all.

Sadly a properly managed program would require employers to pay a minimum wage, which is unacceptable to employers (along with other things that would solve the problem like mandatory use of eVerify for all employment applications).

Basically the current mess will continue because there is too much money to be made out of it.

Re: How an Undocumented Immigrant from Mexico Became a Star at Goldman Sachs

#35

Post by spiralpolitik » Wed, Feb 25, 2015, 4:57 PM UTC

hyperliner wrote: post #4

supahfly_remix wrote: post #3

Maybe I missed it, but how did she qualify for the citizenship mentioned in the 2nd to last paragraph?

I did too, at first. But she and the boyfriend married. I assume the boyfriend is a US Citizen. Then she qualified as a spouse.

But still the US Citizenship application form has lots of very specific questions about past deeds that she would have been required to answer under oath. Either a) She disclosed and answered them "correctly" and had a good immigration lawyer or b) She lied, in which case her citizenship (in theory) could be revoked should USCIS wish to purse the matter in court.

Re: How an Undocumented Immigrant from Mexico Became a Star at Goldman Sachs

#36

Post by pshin45 » Wed, Feb 25, 2015, 5:00 PM UTC

For all those wondering why she was not deported when she "came out" publicly, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (aka "ICE") generally prioritizes immigrants involved in criminal activity (e.g. smuggling, drugs, etc.) due to limited resources and a distaste for stirring controversy, so as long as you are a productive member of society who is paying taxes and not breaking the law otherwise, ICE is willing to look the other way.

In fact, Jose Antonio Vargas (who is mentioned in the article) actually once called up ICE directly to ask them why they were not trying to deport him after he had come out publicly about his status and received a lot of attention in the press about it. ICE never got back to him.

Re: How an Undocumented Immigrant from Mexico Became a Star at Goldman Sachs

#37

Post by digitalneal » Wed, Feb 25, 2015, 5:00 PM UTC

tdees40 wrote: post #33

wtbob wrote: post #29

I hate the phrase 'undocumented immigrant.' It's not like she had some documents and—whoops!—lost them. She had documents from Mexico (presumably); she had expired documents from the United States. She was an alien whose residence in the United States was illegal; the phrase 'illegal alien' is completely accurate. The phrase 'illegal immigrant' is also accurate in her case, since she intended to stay here for good. >…

Crimes are what we decide they are! Criminalizing this sort of behavior is something that most Americans don't want [1]. Expecting someone to be ashamed for violating a law that isn't particularly popular seems silly. Should Uber be ashamed for violating taxi regulations, when those regulations are hated by consumers? [1] http://americasvoice.org/blog/fox-news-poll-confirms-path-to...

I'mma let you finish but let me twist your example a little further.

Should Uber be ashamed that by violating taxi regulations, women have been raped/stalked because of how they operate?

Re: How an Undocumented Immigrant from Mexico Became a Star at Goldman Sachs

#38

Post by Incredulous42 » Wed, Feb 25, 2015, 5:00 PM UTC

refurb wrote: post #12

Incredulous42 wrote: post #9

Wait, how did she get a proper green card? I know she married a US citizen but why didn't the government notice that she'd been in the country illegally? I mean she didn't materialize out of thin air. She had a fake SSN, fake tax records and apparently tax problems, etc. Also, now that she came out, can her citizenship be revoked? She was in the country illegally for more than a decade, worked illegally, and apparent…

My understanding is that under certain circumstances, such as marrying a US citizen, the USCIS can ignore any past violations of immigration law.[1] "If you are a foreign citizen who is in the United States without permission, having overstayed your visa, you can indeed cure the problem if you enter into a bona fide (real) marriage with a U.S. citizen and then apply for adjustment of status (a green card)." You are c…

Interesting. There was an episode on This American Life a few years ago about a Mexican-American couple. He had been in the US illegally and he had to leave and wait for ten years before he could come back legally even though they had married in the US. So they moved to Ciudad Juarez. He's working at a local factory, she's commuting to El Paso every day. IIRC they weren't entirely happy with their situation but they didn't complain either.

Re: How an Undocumented Immigrant from Mexico Became a Star at Goldman Sachs

#39

Post by toomuchtodo » Wed, Feb 25, 2015, 5:05 PM UTC

wtbob wrote: post #29

I hate the phrase 'undocumented immigrant.' It's not like she had some documents and—whoops!—lost them. She had documents from Mexico (presumably); she had expired documents from the United States. She was an alien whose residence in the United States was illegal; the phrase 'illegal alien' is completely accurate. The phrase 'illegal immigrant' is also accurate in her case, since she intended to stay here for good. >…

"Well, when we look back on history, the progress of Western civilization and human rights is actually founded on the violation of law. America was of course born out of a violent revolution that was an outrageous treason against the crown and established order of the day. History shows that the righting of historical wrongs is often born from acts of unrepentant criminality. Slavery. The protection of persecuted Jews.

But even on less extremist topics, we can find similar examples. How about the prohibition of alcohol? Gay marriage? Marijuana? Where would we be today if the government, enjoying powers of perfect surveillance and enforcement, had -- entirely within the law -- rounded up, imprisoned, and shamed all of these lawbreakers?

Ultimately, if people lose their willingness to recognize that there are times in our history when legality becomes distinct from morality, we aren't just ceding control of our rights to government, but our agency in determining our futures."

...

"In such times, we'd do well to remember that at the end of the day, the law doesn't defend us; we defend the law. And when it becomes contrary to our morals, we have both the right and the responsibility to rebalance it toward just ends."

-- Edward Snowden

[1]https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/2wwdep/we_are_edward_...

Re: How an Undocumented Immigrant from Mexico Became a Star at Goldman Sachs

#40

Post by wooyi » Wed, Feb 25, 2015, 5:09 PM UTC

wtbob wrote: post #29

I hate the phrase 'undocumented immigrant.' It's not like she had some documents and—whoops!—lost them. She had documents from Mexico (presumably); she had expired documents from the United States. She was an alien whose residence in the United States was illegal; the phrase 'illegal alien' is completely accurate. The phrase 'illegal immigrant' is also accurate in her case, since she intended to stay here for good. >…

She was a minor when she came over. She was just trying to survive and succeed and the laws made it difficult for her to do so.

Up until the 1960s, blacks were not allowed basic rights and access to many thing, and doing so was considered "criminal". Ditto with gays until recently.

So, anyone fighting against unjust laws are "criminals?