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As I lay dying: Final op-ed from LA Times journalist Laurie Beckland

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Re: As I lay dying: Final op-ed from LA Times journalist Laurie Beckland

#31

Post by stephen_g »

briantakita2 wrote: post #25
Sanddancer wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, cancer occurs in healthy ecosystems. The process of tumorgenesis has a lot of variables that we're still unwinding. There is another cancer out there that is deadlier, and makes a lot of people a lot of money too through questionable means. It goes by names of holistic medicine and "questioning big medicine". It's a gang of the uninformed, led by charlatans and frauds preying on the sick and the dying, spewing t…

I'm a programmer who eats healthy & practices yoga. I don't make money from cancer patients. You are demonizing many techniques. Are you saying that there is only one way to medicine, and that is large drug companies & established professional organizations? How do new practices & techniques get off the ground in such an environment? Is it possible to be healthy & treat disease independent of these companies in your…

I think conventional medicine tends to be worth a lot of money because the treatments have been empirically proven to be effective.

I'm sure there are valid alternative medical treatments, but it tends to be that when they do turn out to be effective, the actual effective compounds or techniques are found and become conventional medicine, often also becoming far improved and made safer along the way.

The problem, of course, is that while valid alternative medicines exist, many aren't valid and are often just practiced to make money out of unsuspecting people...

Re: As I lay dying: Final op-ed from LA Times journalist Laurie Beckland

#32

Post by NovaS1X »

briantakita2 wrote: post #25
Sanddancer wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, cancer occurs in healthy ecosystems. The process of tumorgenesis has a lot of variables that we're still unwinding. There is another cancer out there that is deadlier, and makes a lot of people a lot of money too through questionable means. It goes by names of holistic medicine and "questioning big medicine". It's a gang of the uninformed, led by charlatans and frauds preying on the sick and the dying, spewing t…

I'm a programmer who eats healthy & practices yoga. I don't make money from cancer patients. You are demonizing many techniques. Are you saying that there is only one way to medicine, and that is large drug companies & established professional organizations? How do new practices & techniques get off the ground in such an environment? Is it possible to be healthy & treat disease independent of these companies in your…

I think there's a balance, and both naturopathic/holistic and traditional medicine are at both extremes.

Antibiotics and surgery are not the answer nor are lifestyle and spiritualism.

Live healthy, both emotionally and physically, to take care of the 90%, and seek treatment for the other 10% that truly call for it.

Re: As I lay dying: Final op-ed from LA Times journalist Laurie Beckland

#33

Post by 001sky »

robbiep wrote: post #15
briantakita wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does cancer occur in healthy ecosystems? Maybe big data & reductionism is an incomplete approach... On the flip side, such techniques will make some people a lot of money, so ignore or downvote my concerns...

> Does cancer occur in healthy ecosystems? Honestly, what does that even mean? And if you are trying to suggest that cancer is related to some imbalance in the environment, the answer is, yes, cancer occurs everywhere and anywhere. It is not limited to humans and did not start post-industrial Revolution.

Trying to extrapolate the origin math of a chaotic system is a fools errand.

Re: As I lay dying: Final op-ed from LA Times journalist Laurie Beckland

#34

Post by sandworm »

There is no "comprehensive" database in the US. With 50+ jurisdictions and a nightmarish insurance system I am not surprised. But if you google "metastatic breast cancer database UK" you find this:

"The Recurrent and Metastatic Breast Cancer Data Collection Project Pilot report" http://www.ncin.org.uk/view?rid=1043

"Fifteen breast cancer units across England took part in the pilot for six months from June to November 2011. They identified 598 patients with recurrent and/or metastatic breast cancer, who were then matched with the National Cancer Waiting Times Monitoring Dataset (NCWTMDS) and with data received by cancer registries."

It looks like the UK has been doing exactly what the OP found wasn't happening in the US: centralized databases.

Re: As I lay dying: Final op-ed from LA Times journalist Laurie Beckland

#35

Post by tankerdude »

What exactly will "Big Data" really do for this situation?

Big Data for this seems like not quite the right tact, unless you are shooting to categorize people and hope for the right drug for the many possible mutations for the cancer. I don't think we'd get very far as the samples would still be too small, and there would be too many possible mutations.

The only thing that will help, IMO, that is a future cure is cancer immunotherapy that is specific to just that one person.

It has worked in many cases, but it's very expensive. One of these days, that price could plummet, and even stage 4 could theoretically be kicked to the side, with no need for chemo.

Re: As I lay dying: Final op-ed from LA Times journalist Laurie Beckland

#36

Post by yetanother123 »

briantakita2 wrote: post #25
Sanddancer wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, cancer occurs in healthy ecosystems. The process of tumorgenesis has a lot of variables that we're still unwinding. There is another cancer out there that is deadlier, and makes a lot of people a lot of money too through questionable means. It goes by names of holistic medicine and "questioning big medicine". It's a gang of the uninformed, led by charlatans and frauds preying on the sick and the dying, spewing t…

I'm a programmer who eats healthy & practices yoga. I don't make money from cancer patients. You are demonizing many techniques. Are you saying that there is only one way to medicine, and that is large drug companies & established professional organizations? How do new practices & techniques get off the ground in such an environment? Is it possible to be healthy & treat disease independent of these companies in your…

Interesting and well thought out point. Would you mind telling us more about your healthy eating and yoga and programming? Would you mind for even half a minute stop and think about the fact that just because you eat healthy and do yoga and failed at math (sorry - are a programmer) does not actually make you an expert any more than the fact that me knowing you've never recompiled a Linux kernel means I am a clearvoyiant in terms of computing compared to you?

Oh wait, did I have a point? Seems to you this doesn't matter.

Re: As I lay dying: Final op-ed from LA Times journalist Laurie Beckland

#37

Post by sgift »

briantakita2 wrote: post #25
Sanddancer wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, cancer occurs in healthy ecosystems. The process of tumorgenesis has a lot of variables that we're still unwinding. There is another cancer out there that is deadlier, and makes a lot of people a lot of money too through questionable means. It goes by names of holistic medicine and "questioning big medicine". It's a gang of the uninformed, led by charlatans and frauds preying on the sick and the dying, spewing t…

I'm a programmer who eats healthy & practices yoga. I don't make money from cancer patients. You are demonizing many techniques. Are you saying that there is only one way to medicine, and that is large drug companies & established professional organizations? How do new practices & techniques get off the ground in such an environment? Is it possible to be healthy & treat disease independent of these companies in your…

> I'm a programmer who eats healthy & practices yoga. I don't make money from cancer patients.

That is very noble of you and I read an implied hypothesis that the approach used by "large drug companies" and "established professional organizations" is worse than yours because their motives are less noble (e.g. companies want to make money, organizations want to further an agenda etc.), but a hypothesis alone is worthless if you cannot show evidence to prove it.

I give you that it would be hard to provide direct evidence for this hypothesis (neither companies nor organizations will be very helpful in providing information which could show that they lied for various reasons), so a good approach seems to be the indirect route: Show that your ideas work as well as the established ideas in a study following the established guidelines for scientific quality (double blind, big enough, and so on). Then you have shown that your hypothesis has merit and has a good chance of being sound advice.

So far, all we have are your believes, which is not very much when we talk about a topic that could very well change peoples lifes for worse (or better, but it is always a good idea to be cautious with unproved theories).

Re: As I lay dying: Final op-ed from LA Times journalist Laurie Beckland

#38

Post by JohnTHaller »

briantakita2 wrote: post #21
brador wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By what process does acid/low oxygen cause cancer in your theory? By what sequence of events? Talk me through it. Aside, the proposed 'cure' of anecdotal relaxing and energy therapies is heavily affected by survivor bias. And without consistent repeatability is unusable in a professional medical environment.

Unknowns. Its not my theory either. Think of this like a craftsman. Just like programmers don't use the scientific method to adopt & evolve practices. It's a cultural phenomena that utilizes anecdotal accounts to advance the practice. Advantages & Disadvantages. It seems more useful in environments with many variables, like life.

Did you seriously create a second account on HN so you could keep posting this nonsense without having your primary account take the brunt of the downvotes?

Re: As I lay dying: Final op-ed from LA Times journalist Laurie Beckland

#39

Post by yetanother123 »

briantakita wrote: post #7

I hate to say this (& will be downvoted), but our obsession with reductionist thinking blinds us to the actual causes of cancer. Just like unit tests blind the programmer from how the system works. From a holistic perspective, cancer is caused by an acidic, low oxygen environment or "stagnant energy". Emotional well being, energy work, & massage therapy has also been anecdotally reported by practitioners to cause can…

From a holistic perspective, you are an ill informed peddler of bullcrap.

Now before you criticize me for "lack of studies" to back up my claim, please understand that you are making a fool of yourself.

Re: As I lay dying: Final op-ed from LA Times journalist Laurie Beckland

#40

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

dghughes wrote: post #5

Quite sad yet more women will die of heart disease than breast cancer. Although I do like her request: >Promise me, I told my friends and family, that you'll never say that I died after “fighting a courageous battle with breast cancer.” This tired, trite line dishonors the dead and the dying by suggesting that we, the victims, are responsible for our deaths or that the fight we were in was ever fair. And the slamming…

This is what disgusts me most with Komen's annual "save the boobies" campaign. It really turned into a circus when they started smearing their marketing gimmick over professional athletes and garbage cans. It speaks to the shallowness of American culture that diseases can be "marketed" for the sake of the almighty buck.
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