Yeah, that's why in a lot of countries you just use the state-sanctioned software and be done with it. This is just BS from companies afraid to lose their cash cow. Fraud is always going to happen, period. Deal with them and that's it.
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Free Tax Software Is Bad
31–40 of 50 posts
Re: Free Tax Software Is Bad
#32Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'd use "preparer" everywhere you use "collector" above. The private companies don't actually collect the money; that goes straight to/from the government. The private companies, whether silicon or carbon-based, just serve to help you prepare your tax return (ie: calculate your total tax and file the return). I agree with you on the complexity points, as I spend in the just barely four-figures annually for my CPA/EA…
> push that information to you in a customized-to-you fashion. but the IRS somehow knows exactly what you owed them and why, so why can't they just perform that calculation before hand, and then tell you it, instead of forcing an onerous process on everyone else, and waste people's resources paying for tax-preparation services?
The IRS knows the maximum you owe. If you just want them to send you a bill and you pay it without contention, that could be arranged. If you want to use any deductions, then you'll have to work thru the paperwork explaining why you don't owe them so much.
Re: Free Tax Software Is Bad
#33I don't feel bad for Intuit maker of TurboTax. Intuit has spent millions lobbying against tax reform that would make filing simpler. http://techcrunch.com/2013/03/27/turbotax-maker-funnels-mill...
Wouldn't you, if that were your business model? Let's blame TurboTax when it's legislators selling their power. They could, you know, be representatives of the people and not be influenced by TurboTax.
Plus, that article talks about TurboTax lobbying against the government providing their own tax software, nothing about making returns simpler. Why would a government-run service be simpler? I'm sure TurboTax wants to make their software as simple to use to compete with other tax return services. I've found these services very simple to use myself. If we were talking about making the tax code simpler, I would agree, so perhaps I missed that.
Re: Free Tax Software Is Bad
#34Earlier quoted context omitted.
For Switzerland there's a java based software that allows you to print a PDF in the end you can send by snail-mail. See this page if you're interested: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&pr... They also have a web based solution, but I personally prefer not to use it, because I don't trust it.
I switched to the online version, and I can't really tell the difference vs. the java software. Out of curiousity what do you not trust?
(The difference is that the java software runs localy and spits out a PDF for snailmail, and the online version is a webapp that directly transmits our stuff to the server.)
I don't trust to store this stuff in a remotely secure manner for the online version. I have no idea how their setup looks like, but I expect they'll throw it in some kind of database and are done with it. That would be the worst case.
If anyone manages to compromise the application server, they can see all the data.
I don't trust them to have a sane architecture where the application server has basically write only access to the database. I don't trust them to encrypt the data with a public key to process them later on on a box that doesn't serve random requests from the internet.
I have more faith in them beeing able to physically guard a piece of paper, even if they'll scan it and then process it digitally later on (which they do), you can not access it by exploiting an SQL injection on the public internet (hopefully).
Edit: I just checked their website again and it seems to confirm my suspicion about their architecture. Seems you could even get access to all data from previous years:
> If the online solution [was] used in the previous year, the previous data will be available automatically.
Sure, they could encrypt each dataset with they key the provide to each user, but i doubt it.
Re: Free Tax Software Is Bad
#35I don't feel bad for Intuit maker of TurboTax. Intuit has spent millions lobbying against tax reform that would make filing simpler. http://techcrunch.com/2013/03/27/turbotax-maker-funnels-mill...
Wouldn't you, if that were your business model? Let's blame TurboTax when it's legislators selling their power. They could, you know, be representatives of the people and not be influenced by TurboTax. Plus, that article talks about TurboTax lobbying against the government providing their own tax software, nothing about making returns simpler. Why would a government-run service be simpler? I'm sure TurboTax wants to…
Your point seems to be that we shouldn't blame a corporation worth billions for making laws that make our society worse because there are others at fault as well...?
Re: Free Tax Software Is Bad
#36Earlier quoted context omitted.
> in a lot of countries you just use the state-sanctioned software Make that free, web-based & state-hosted online solutions. What is this tax-software thing you are taking about?
I think we have a web based application for simple tax returns now in Australia. I still download the free application from the tax office to do mine though because I have to put my business income in and share income and stuff. It's a bit crappy, but at least they finally have a Mac version as of about two years ago and it only takes about 45 minutes because it pulls most of your info in (bank interest, share income…
I use an accountant and claim it as a tax deduction the next year.
Re: Free Tax Software Is Bad
#37Earlier quoted context omitted.
Same here, coming from Norway. My process of filling in taxes is get an e-mail notifying me it's ready to be checked, log in to a government website using a secure ID chip thingy, check that the yearly income and tax percentage looks correct, click OK, done. Taxes are paid continuously by my employer on each salary payment, and if at the end of the year it turns out I paid too little, I get a bill, and if I paid too…
In the UK the vast majority of people do nothing each year, they get a piece of paper called a P60 that just lists the money the earnt and the tax their employer deducted at source for them.
Yep, looking from the UK or Ireland, we are constantly told how the US is so efficient at everything, etc etc....but their tax system is a complete mess...There are far to many credits, loopholes, electoral pork, red tape in the US system.
It's part of a bigger question I have been pondering recently. My sense is that in the 80s/90s the US tax system was much more efficient than the UK/Ireland/Scandinavia/German/Baltics system but somewhere along the line we learned their lessons and overtook them in terms of efficiency. (I suspect it's a bit like the Beta/VHS thing).
Even running a small company taxes in the UK is (honestly) not too tricky when it comes to this stuff - I'm sure it's even easier in a flat tax place like Estonia (take 20%, send it electronically to government, go back to work.).
I can only imagine how painfully complex it is in the US - and the amount of time an entrepreneur would spend dealing with it instead of building stuff.
Having been in the states a number of times in the last few years, I have been pretty shocked about the amount of bureaucracy that gets in the way of even very basic stuff - simple transactions, employee visas, lack of credit/eletronic payments for stuff etc etc
Re: Free Tax Software Is Bad
#38Complaining something is bad because the low/free price makes crime feasible is...baffling. Like banning spoons because they're cheap, making it easier to get fat. The USA does provide free tax software: http://www.irs.gov/uac/Free-File:-Do-Your-Federal-Taxes-for-...
That just links to a page of the free editions of commercial software.
Re: Free Tax Software Is Bad
#39I don't feel bad for Intuit maker of TurboTax. Intuit has spent millions lobbying against tax reform that would make filing simpler. http://techcrunch.com/2013/03/27/turbotax-maker-funnels-mill...
Wouldn't you, if that were your business model? Let's blame TurboTax when it's legislators selling their power. They could, you know, be representatives of the people and not be influenced by TurboTax. Plus, that article talks about TurboTax lobbying against the government providing their own tax software, nothing about making returns simpler. Why would a government-run service be simpler? I'm sure TurboTax wants to…
That's like saying it was not the Confederacy's fault for trying to stop the Thirteenth Amendment because it ruined their 'business model' too.
If a business pays money to make anyone's life harder then they are bad.
Re: Free Tax Software Is Bad
#40Privatized tax collectors are bad. Private collectors have every incentive to make collection as difficult as possible so as to cement their position (and profits). A government that employs a tax scheme that is so complicated that it requires private collectors is signalling dysfunction and is presenting an attack surface whereby that government is open to undue influence from the collectors while simultaneously ham…
I'd use "preparer" everywhere you use "collector" above. The private companies don't actually collect the money; that goes straight to/from the government. The private companies, whether silicon or carbon-based, just serve to help you prepare your tax return (ie: calculate your total tax and file the return). I agree with you on the complexity points, as I spend in the just barely four-figures annually for my CPA/EA…
> I disagree on the duty to inform point. It is your duty as a citizen (and optionally a business owner) to understand the laws that are relevant to you, and not the government's duty to push that information to you in a customized-to-you fashion.
I agree with you to a point. Citizens and businesses have a responsibility to understand the laws that apply, but government has a responsibility to make those laws as easy to find and understand as practical. The source of most complaints about government services in the US can be traced to lack of customer service, of which this is a form. The government has no impetus to spend resources on this problem; the cynical would claim they actually have a perverse incentive to make laws as obtuse as possible in order to bring in fines for innocent mistakes.
The IRS used to be much worse in this regard. A couple decades ago they didn't give a flying fuck about the taxpayer. "Understanding the laws" back then basically amounted to dumping a pile of legalese the size of the Encyclopedia Britannica in front of the taxpayer and expecting them to go through it and figure out what applies to them. That is the behavior that spawned the tax preparation industry in the US in the first place.