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UK to allow babies from three people

bbc.com

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Re: UK to allow babies from three people

#31

Post by maxerickson »

geographomics wrote: post #30
maxerickson wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(I wasn't) correct in saying that the implantation of modified embryos was banned in 2008: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2008/22/section/3 Here's the relevant original text: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1990/37/section/3/enacte... edited for error.

Perhaps I'm reading this incorrectly, but as far I can see it was implicitly banned in the 1990 Act by section 3(3d). And then section 3ZA(5) as introduced in 2008 enabled the development of oocyte or embryo-modifying technologies to prevent mitochondrial disease.

I think you're right, sorry for the noise.

Re: UK to allow babies from three people

#32

Post by jforman »

Crito wrote: post #15
Cogito wrote: post #9

To those wondering, this does not involve gene splicing or anything like that. Instead, defective mitochondria are being replaced with mitochondria from a healthy donor. This technique is only valid for diseases involving defective mitochondria. The mitochondrial DNA is responsible for very very little of the genetic material that defines who a person is, essentially limited to how effective the mitochondria are at t…

How do mitochondria replicate their own DNA? Do they somehow have the rest of the cell do it, or do they contain/produce and use all of the necessary enzymes/proteins/base-pairs/etc to do it by themselves? The relationship between them and their host cell almost seems similar to ant-fungus mutualism.

All of the DNA replication machinery that operates in mitochondria is encoded in the nucleus, translated in the cytoplasm, and then transported into the mitochondrion:

"The remaining ~1500 mitochondrial proteins are encoded in the nucleus, including all proteins needed for replication and expression of the small mtDNA genome (Falkenberg et al., 2007)"

from http://ac.els-cdn.com/S0092867409012458/1-s2.0-S009286740901...

Re: UK to allow babies from three people

#34

Post by Tuna-Fish »

manicdee wrote: post #17
Tuna-Fish wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

World population is not exploding, and overpopulation is not and will not be a major world problem.

Are you suggesting there are no limits to growth? No limits to available fresh water supplies? No limits to energy production? Once you run you of fresh water and have to rely on nuclear power to run the desalination plants to keep people watered, you have three major problems.

> Are you suggesting there are no limits to growth?

There are limits to growth. We are just not anywhere near them, and don't seem to be approaching them. World birth rates are coming down fast enough that world population will probably never again double.

> No limits to available fresh water supplies?

Fresh water is a local problem. The world fresh water supply is renewable and renews at a rate several orders of magnitude greater than human consumption. Fresh water is a problem because transportation of it is expensive, and people prefer to live in places that have supply problems above places that don't.

Still, I expect that fresh water supply problems will mostly be solved by desalinization rather than migration.

> No limits to energy production?

Nuclear is limited really only by capital expenditure. Solar's limits are also vastly greater than any feasible demand, and it's getting cheaper.

> Once you run you of fresh water and have to rely on nuclear power to run the desalination plants to keep people watered, you have three major problems.

And what would those be? In any case, it makes little sense to desalinize using nuclear. Desalinization is a problem that's a perfect fit for solar power, as the capital cost of equipment is low enough in comparison to the energy costs that you can effortlessly vary production with the load, and the end product can be stored well.

Re: UK to allow babies from three people

#35

Post by geographomics »

maxerickson wrote: post #31
geographomics wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps I'm reading this incorrectly, but as far I can see it was implicitly banned in the 1990 Act by section 3(3d). And then section 3ZA(5) as introduced in 2008 enabled the development of oocyte or embryo-modifying technologies to prevent mitochondrial disease.

I think you're right, sorry for the noise.

No I think we're both correct - sorry, I didn't explain myself properly! I agree with you that it was definitely still banned for implantation.

But by having that clause about mitochondrial disease in, it enabled researchers to investigate (and the the HFE Authority to permit research on) human mitochondrial transfer techniques in vitro by explicitly pointing out the possibility of a future redefinition.

EDIT: this explains it much better than I'm trying to - http://www.hfea.gov.uk/mitochondrial-disease-new-research.ht...

Re: UK to allow babies from three people

#36

Post by wtallis »

m_mueller wrote: post #33

It seems to me that the 'three people' metaphor is a bit misguided. I'd look at it as an organ donor-ship to an embryo - just a special organ that gets copied into every cell.

It isn't just copied into every cell, it's also heritable—just a very insignificant inheritance.

Re: UK to allow babies from three people

#37

Post by geographomics »

m_mueller wrote: post #33

It seems to me that the 'three people' metaphor is a bit misguided. I'd look at it as an organ donor-ship to an embryo - just a special organ that gets copied into every cell.

I think "three people" is okay as it correctly gets across how many contributors there are of genetic and other biological material.

Some other sources have been referring to "three-parent babies" though, which doesn't seem right, as the mitochondrial donor has no maternal role or rights to the baby.

Re: UK to allow babies from three people

#38

Post by jessaustin »

michaelsbradley wrote: post #29
ceejayoz wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IVF involves all the same hormonal and ovulation monitoring that NFP would, so I'm a bit baffled by the apparent belief that this anecdote is anything other than raw probability in action.

I simply offered the anecdote for consideration. I had three couples in mind. One went through IVF three times, the others two times each. In none of the cases were there successful results, though in all three cases there were significant financial costs. All three couples had a child (two of them more than one, so far) after they began using a modern NFP method to track the female partner's fertility; and the finan…

...many couples are oblivious to the existence of modern NFP...

Gosh, why wouldn't their fertility doctors have told them about it? b^)

Re: UK to allow babies from three people

#39

Post by adamnemecek »

gameshot911 wrote: post #16
Cogito wrote: post #9

To those wondering, this does not involve gene splicing or anything like that. Instead, defective mitochondria are being replaced with mitochondria from a healthy donor. This technique is only valid for diseases involving defective mitochondria. The mitochondrial DNA is responsible for very very little of the genetic material that defines who a person is, essentially limited to how effective the mitochondria are at t…

>Those who think this is the start of ever more invasive genetic modification of humans, or so called "designer babies" Well...this is the start of ever more invasive genetic modification of humans.

> invasive genetic modification of humans

Besides safety, are there any issues with that?

Re: UK to allow babies from three people

#40

Post by [deleted] »

BadCookie wrote: post #7

I wonder how people will feel about two men being genetic parents to one baby (with the help of a surrogate mother) once it becomes technologically possible. In that case, no disease is being avoided, but I don't think it falls under the realm of a "designer" baby either. My guess is that many of us will live to see it happen.

[deleted]
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