A Heroin Dealer Tells the Silk Road Jury What It Was Like to Sell Drugs Online • Hacker News Board

Re: A Heroin Dealer Tells the Silk Road Jury What It Was Like to Sell Drugs Online

#31

Post by girvo » Thu, Jan 29, 2015, 11:03 AM UTC

cmdkeen wrote: post #13

There are a few interesting takeaways: - Pain perscriptions as a gateway to more hardcore drug use that destroys life, it doesn't sound like this individual had any "liberty" to make choices once he had become hooked on painkillers - Heroin addictions are incredibly expensive in monetary terms, at $3,500 a week the price reduction would have to be huge before any legal drug wouldn't continue to create acquisitive cri…

Heroin is... Interesting. I was an addict for 6 years. I ran two businesses (one successfully), held down excellent jobs for amazing agencies, built cool stuff, had numerous relationships that were both good and bad.

Most of heroin's issues arise because of its illegality, coupled with its price. I was spending $400 a day. It's nearly impossible to keep afloat with that sort of outgoing expense. Heroin also makes me grumpier than I typically am, and I wouldn't wish the withdrawals on my worst enemy.

But on the other hand, it has few negative physical effects in the long term, which I find amazingly curious. I've been clean for three years now, and if I didn't tell you you'd never know what I'd done. That's odd, in my opinion, considering its reputation. If I'd drunk the equivalent amount of alcohol every day for six years, I'd doubt that would be the case.

Like any drug, being illegal distorts the market and causes issues that wouldn't exist with it legal, however I would never want to see it legal the same way alcohol is. It's simply dangerous above and beyond things like weed. I'm truly not sure how i feel about it, to be honest. I just know that I would never use it again, regardless of its legal status.

Re: A Heroin Dealer Tells the Silk Road Jury What It Was Like to Sell Drugs Online

#32

Post by byEngineer » Thu, Jan 29, 2015, 11:16 AM UTC

nostrademons wrote: post #21

cmdkeen wrote: post #13

There are a few interesting takeaways: - Pain perscriptions as a gateway to more hardcore drug use that destroys life, it doesn't sound like this individual had any "liberty" to make choices once he had become hooked on painkillers - Heroin addictions are incredibly expensive in monetary terms, at $3,500 a week the price reduction would have to be huge before any legal drug wouldn't continue to create acquisitive cri…

There's historical precedent for legalized heroin - it's the opium dens of the mid/late 19th century. I don't think that's a world that many people want to go back to. Most of the time when people talk about drug legalization, they mean things like marijuana, LSD, or ecstasy.

why not to legalize something that hurts just the one who takes it? The same logic would require us to delegalize alcohol. Remember, we had booze dealers with machine guns terrorizing whole cities, like Chicago, before we came back to our senses and legalized it.

Can you see Corona dealers fighting with Coors dealers for a territory to sell beer? Why not? This is the EXACT reality of 1920s in this country.

I don't care if some idiots are going to kill themselves. As if we didn't have enough economic issues and ways to spend money, to spend so much on prisons, police force and all this other BS to deal with somebody's addiction.

I will tell you what will happen. As 1929 crash forced us to legalize alcohol, the same way 2008 forced us to legalize weed. Hopefully next crash will force us to legalize rest of it and start making money on it to find education vs. taking money from education to keep juvenile institutions staffed with guards.

Re: A Heroin Dealer Tells the Silk Road Jury What It Was Like to Sell Drugs Online

#33

Post by vertex-four » Thu, Jan 29, 2015, 11:16 AM UTC

nostrademons wrote: post #21

cmdkeen wrote: post #13

There are a few interesting takeaways: - Pain perscriptions as a gateway to more hardcore drug use that destroys life, it doesn't sound like this individual had any "liberty" to make choices once he had become hooked on painkillers - Heroin addictions are incredibly expensive in monetary terms, at $3,500 a week the price reduction would have to be huge before any legal drug wouldn't continue to create acquisitive cri…

There's historical precedent for legalized heroin - it's the opium dens of the mid/late 19th century. I don't think that's a world that many people want to go back to. Most of the time when people talk about drug legalization, they mean things like marijuana, LSD, or ecstasy.

> I don't think that's a world that many people want to go back to.

Not knowing much about this, could I ask why?

Re: A Heroin Dealer Tells the Silk Road Jury What It Was Like to Sell Drugs Online

#34

Post by andrey-p » Thu, Jan 29, 2015, 11:20 AM UTC

girvo wrote: post #31

cmdkeen wrote: post #13

There are a few interesting takeaways: - Pain perscriptions as a gateway to more hardcore drug use that destroys life, it doesn't sound like this individual had any "liberty" to make choices once he had become hooked on painkillers - Heroin addictions are incredibly expensive in monetary terms, at $3,500 a week the price reduction would have to be huge before any legal drug wouldn't continue to create acquisitive cri…

Heroin is... Interesting. I was an addict for 6 years. I ran two businesses (one successfully), held down excellent jobs for amazing agencies, built cool stuff, had numerous relationships that were both good and bad. Most of heroin's issues arise because of its illegality, coupled with its price. I was spending $400 a day. It's nearly impossible to keep afloat with that sort of outgoing expense. Heroin also makes me…

Thanks for sharing this. If you don't mind me asking, how did you find the experience of getting rid of that habit? What got you to finally try and defeat it?

Re: A Heroin Dealer Tells the Silk Road Jury What It Was Like to Sell Drugs Online

#35

Post by stickfigure » Thu, Jan 29, 2015, 11:21 AM UTC

cmdkeen wrote: post #13

There are a few interesting takeaways: - Pain perscriptions as a gateway to more hardcore drug use that destroys life, it doesn't sound like this individual had any "liberty" to make choices once he had become hooked on painkillers - Heroin addictions are incredibly expensive in monetary terms, at $3,500 a week the price reduction would have to be huge before any legal drug wouldn't continue to create acquisitive cri…

...at $3,500 a week the price reduction would have to be huge before any legal drug wouldn't continue to create acquisitive crime to fund it

I infer from this statement that you believe that, in the case of legalization, the price would still be high enough to require crime. Do you have any reason to believe that heroin is inherently more expensive to manufacture than, say, aspirin?

Also, unless heroin addiction skews towards the top five-percenters, $3500 per week is a distant outlier.

Re: A Heroin Dealer Tells the Silk Road Jury What It Was Like to Sell Drugs Online

#36

Post by klibertp » Thu, Jan 29, 2015, 11:23 AM UTC

coffeemug wrote: post #8

deciplex wrote: post #2

> Aside from offering a hands-on account of how the Silk Road worked from a dealer’s perspective, Duch’s story calls into question claims that the Silk Road reduced violence by moving drug sales from the street to the relative safety of the internet. Duch’s testimony seemed to suggest that he wouldn’t have sold drugs at all if it weren’t for the Silk Road... Wow. What a stupendous flaw in logic and reasoning. I guess…

> But in terms of harm reduction Silk Road was pretty awesome (fwiw, I never used the service). Not only did it derisk buying and selling drugs... I don't see how it follows that derisking drug sales necessarily didn't increase harm. Yes, if you were selling drugs on Silk Road you were less likely to get into a violent confrontation with a client. Yes, if you were buying drugs on Silk Road you were less likely to get…

> Heroin isn't weed. It destroys lives of its users and certainly harms the society at large.

See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8965411

Also a sibling comment maccard. Also google "krokodil".

In short it's not heroin that destroys lives, it's idiotic policy which makes heroin (or other opiates) very expensive (destroying users' careers and relationships) or unavailable (destroying users' health via them trying to substitute it with something much worse).

The only real threat of opiates is overdosing, which comes from increasing tolerance and uncertain quality of a drug. Making opiates legal and quality-checked and allowing to develop substances that would reduce possibility of increasing tolerance would make opiates just as safe as weed, and certainly safer than alcohol.

But that wouldn't work, because... what? I'm curious.

Re: A Heroin Dealer Tells the Silk Road Jury What It Was Like to Sell Drugs Online

#37

Post by byEngineer » Thu, Jan 29, 2015, 11:23 AM UTC

zqxwce wrote: post #29

kissickas wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any idea of how he did get caught? I've searched around briefly but haven't found anything.

Same question.

Police orders it on the Silk Road, then asks USPS where it was shipped from. Then the cameras at the USPS do the rest.

Re: A Heroin Dealer Tells the Silk Road Jury What It Was Like to Sell Drugs Online

#38

Post by hessenwolf » Thu, Jan 29, 2015, 11:23 AM UTC

girvo wrote: post #31

cmdkeen wrote: post #13

There are a few interesting takeaways: - Pain perscriptions as a gateway to more hardcore drug use that destroys life, it doesn't sound like this individual had any "liberty" to make choices once he had become hooked on painkillers - Heroin addictions are incredibly expensive in monetary terms, at $3,500 a week the price reduction would have to be huge before any legal drug wouldn't continue to create acquisitive cri…

Heroin is... Interesting. I was an addict for 6 years. I ran two businesses (one successfully), held down excellent jobs for amazing agencies, built cool stuff, had numerous relationships that were both good and bad. Most of heroin's issues arise because of its illegality, coupled with its price. I was spending $400 a day. It's nearly impossible to keep afloat with that sort of outgoing expense. Heroin also makes me…

This is interesting, as it turns my viewpoint on its head. I firmly believed heroin addicts were all zombies. You are arguing they are quite completely saveable.

It changes my view on whether it is useful to help somebody. Do you have any references for this?

Re: A Heroin Dealer Tells the Silk Road Jury What It Was Like to Sell Drugs Online

#39

Post by byEngineer » Thu, Jan 29, 2015, 11:29 AM UTC

coffeemug wrote: post #8

deciplex wrote: post #2

> Aside from offering a hands-on account of how the Silk Road worked from a dealer’s perspective, Duch’s story calls into question claims that the Silk Road reduced violence by moving drug sales from the street to the relative safety of the internet. Duch’s testimony seemed to suggest that he wouldn’t have sold drugs at all if it weren’t for the Silk Road... Wow. What a stupendous flaw in logic and reasoning. I guess…

> But in terms of harm reduction Silk Road was pretty awesome (fwiw, I never used the service). Not only did it derisk buying and selling drugs... I don't see how it follows that derisking drug sales necessarily didn't increase harm. Yes, if you were selling drugs on Silk Road you were less likely to get into a violent confrontation with a client. Yes, if you were buying drugs on Silk Road you were less likely to get…

there is no logical arguments behind keeping it illegal. Just emotional stuff. That's the problem i dislike hard liners on drugs legality so much. They are like cult members and can't talk to their reason.

How is it your business if someone's injecting heroin? Is this your business? By the Constituion? By comparison to alcohol or weed? None of your business. The same way like guns. I can buy gun to hurt you, and that's fine, but can't get some chemicals to hurt myself? Where is logic here brother?

There is none. Just emotional BS. Get over it. As crash in 1929 legalized alcohol and we don't have beer dealers shooting each other (we used to have them!!!). As crash in 2008 legalized weed in large parts of the country, the same way next crash will legalize rest of it.

In this economy I don't have so much money to spend on somebody's else life. Sorry. And now start your emotional cry.

Re: A Heroin Dealer Tells the Silk Road Jury What It Was Like to Sell Drugs Online

#40

Post by cmdkeen » Thu, Jan 29, 2015, 11:31 AM UTC

byEngineer wrote: post #32

nostrademons wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's historical precedent for legalized heroin - it's the opium dens of the mid/late 19th century. I don't think that's a world that many people want to go back to. Most of the time when people talk about drug legalization, they mean things like marijuana, LSD, or ecstasy.

why not to legalize something that hurts just the one who takes it? The same logic would require us to delegalize alcohol. Remember, we had booze dealers with machine guns terrorizing whole cities, like Chicago, before we came back to our senses and legalized it. Can you see Corona dealers fighting with Coors dealers for a territory to sell beer? Why not? This is the EXACT reality of 1920s in this country. I don't ca…

You don't have to be in favour of the current war on drugs to be in favour of heroin being illegal - and this is key selling heroin being illegal. Even Portugal, held up as the example of decriminalization only decriminalized possession not distribution.

Being a heroin addict should be treated as a social/medical problem and people given all the help they can to get clean, but we absolutely shouldn't be encouraging people to take it up. Especially heroin which is responsible for a very high percentage of all drug related deaths.