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Germany plans highway test track for self-driving cars

blog.a9t9.com

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Re: Germany plans highway test track for self-driving cars

#31

Post by joezydeco »

Argorak wrote: post #30
joezydeco wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And it's dynamic. Portions will switch from unlimited to limited speed based on weather, construction, or accidents far ahead, giving everyone time to slow down and merge away from a blocked lane. And drivers actually follow the signs . As an American driver it's an amazing thing to see.

> And drivers actually follow the signs. As an American driver it's an amazing thing to see. Speed control flashes are a common sight :).

You mean the ones that result in a ticket being sent to the rental car agency in the driver's name? Never heard of them. =)

Re: Germany plans highway test track for self-driving cars

#32

Post by sokoloff »

andrewtbham wrote: post #13

Summary: Germany is opening up A9 Autobahn for testing self driving cars. Previously, German companies couldn't test on the public roads due to regulations. German car companies don't want to depend on Google for autonomous driving technology.

In 1991, I worked for Daimler (Mercedes) in their Advanced Vehicle Research group. We had an abandoned section of Autobahn a few miles outside Stuttgart available for our use, but we also had authorization to test on public highways in autonomous mode. We just had to have a driver seated and paying attention, and had a red panic button on the center console. Pushing the panic button reverted the vehicle control to fully manual. (This was in a large bus-like vehicle, based on the Vario platform, a little larger than a current Sprinter.)

http://www.autoevolution.com/news/a-short-history-of-mercede... is an image of the actual vehicle I worked on.

So, while we couldn't test in no-humans onboard mode, we logged hundred of miles in fully autonomous mode.

Technical notes: the programming language was Occam. I'd have to look through my notes to see what the network size was, but the vision system alone (my main focus, no pun intended) was in the low double figures of processors, with most of those being dedicated to variance calculations to find prominent horizontal edges. I seem to recall we processed the video stream at 15 frames per second by the time I left.

Best. Internship. Ever...

Re: Germany plans highway test track for self-driving cars

#33

Post by rndn »

DasIch wrote: post #14
rndn wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience there is no significant difference between an Autobahn and a North American highway regarding the difficulty of navigation. The tricky parts are the ramps, exits, construction zones and merging, and they occur roughly with the same frequency. I think the test track is more about testing technology which will be installed at the roadside.

Speaking as a German who spend quite some time driving in other European countries with speed limits, the difference is massive. Elsewhere most people tend to drive at more or less at the maximum speed allowed. This makes for a very relaxed, easy albeit boring experience. In Germany the difference in speed between the cars are a lot bigger, even in areas with a speed limit. In combination with the Rechtsfahrgebot (a…

It would be actually interesting to hear about this difference from someone who is working on autonomous cars for both highways and Autobahns. I still wouldn't call the difference 'massive' (at least not in terms of how much the technology would need to advance). Overtaking and avoiding slows down is an issue on highways in other countries too and once it is implemented it could possibly be easily adapted to traffic moving at a faster pace. Being trapped on the right lane happens quite often, but you generally have this problem when the current lane is crowded. It's not a special case for the Autobahn. I agree that the speed difference can be much higher which would possibly require a ToF sensor with higher range than what is currently built into the Google cars (only about 200 m).

Re: Germany plans highway test track for self-driving cars

#34

Post by byw »

pgeorgi wrote: post #16
saosebastiao wrote: post #2

A test highway ? I thought the highway was the solved problem. Google's car handles the highways so well that they don't even bother testing it on the highways anymore.

But not for Volkswagen (Audi is in Ingolstadt, which the A9 passes), BMW (Munich, also passed by the A9) and Daimler (they're further away, but still close). I guess they're not interested in sharing their livelyhood with Google, so they have to reinvent that particular automatic wheel...

I think it's also about leverage. If they do end up using Google's tech they'd get a better deal if they're in a less desperate position.

Re: Germany plans highway test track for self-driving cars

#35

Post by pgeorgi »

jacquesm wrote: post #21
pgeorgi wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But not for Volkswagen (Audi is in Ingolstadt, which the A9 passes), BMW (Munich, also passed by the A9) and Daimler (they're further away, but still close). I guess they're not interested in sharing their livelyhood with Google, so they have to reinvent that particular automatic wheel...

They've been at it since (long) before google even existed and have had self driving cars for nearly two decades. The thing that needs to be done is to expand the conditions under which it works and to improve the reliability because an intervention is a lot worse than having to do an evasive maneuver when you're already driving. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VaMP

The reliability thing is the big issue though. It should be possible to scale that transputer system down to the equivalent of a couple of smartphones by now, but the luxury brand car manufacturers are still very reluctant to add anything automatic to their autos. For about 3 years they're parking automatically, and for a year or so they follow the current track on the road, yay. That's far from what they did in 1996.

Having that test strip will help sort out the issues, increase confidence and through that, increase political will to sort out liability issues and so on.

Even Mercedes is now promoting autonomous vehicles with "you may have better things to do on the road" (at CES, I think). That was completely unheard of even two years ago (where they pretty much dismissing the Google effort because it spoils the "fun of driving" and who would want that?)

So yes, Google plays a big part in that current effort by pushing these companies to do what they're able to. Just like Tesla makes everyone else consider electrical cars now, even though there were concepts of that going back to the early 90s (and mass produced electrical cars in the early 20th century).

Both demonstrate that the time is right, and now the others want to be part of that, without becoming reliant on those new-comers. Markets at work.

Re: Germany plans highway test track for self-driving cars

#36

Post by pgeorgi »

saosebastiao wrote: post #2

A test highway ? I thought the highway was the solved problem. Google's car handles the highways so well that they don't even bother testing it on the highways anymore.

A highway in California and Nevada is a solved problem. A highway in Germany not so: Rain and snow are pretty much normal here (as in about a 0.5 chance you need to cope with it for any given day).

Re: Germany plans highway test track for self-driving cars

#37

Post by pgeorgi »

byw wrote: post #34
pgeorgi wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But not for Volkswagen (Audi is in Ingolstadt, which the A9 passes), BMW (Munich, also passed by the A9) and Daimler (they're further away, but still close). I guess they're not interested in sharing their livelyhood with Google, so they have to reinvent that particular automatic wheel...

I think it's also about leverage. If they do end up using Google's tech they'd get a better deal if they're in a less desperate position.

From German pride (which is cars and soccer) over privacy concern to plain industry support (expect Germany to support those compan... I meant to say, efforts with €€€), there are many incentives to not go with anything Google, except maybe as supporting system (eg. their maps data, together with others).

Re: Germany plans highway test track for self-driving cars

#38

Post by psycovic23 »

rndn wrote: post #33
DasIch wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking as a German who spend quite some time driving in other European countries with speed limits, the difference is massive. Elsewhere most people tend to drive at more or less at the maximum speed allowed. This makes for a very relaxed, easy albeit boring experience. In Germany the difference in speed between the cars are a lot bigger, even in areas with a speed limit. In combination with the Rechtsfahrgebot (a…

It would be actually interesting to hear about this difference from someone who is working on autonomous cars for both highways and Autobahns. I still wouldn't call the difference 'massive' (at least not in terms of how much the technology would need to advance). Overtaking and avoiding slows down is an issue on highways in other countries too and once it is implemented it could possibly be easily adapted to traffic…

I do work on this. Your last point is correct (and probably the biggest issue). Others include weather and general vision problems.
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