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By Making a Game Out of Rejection, a Man Conquers Fear

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Re: By Making a Game Out of Rejection, a Man Conquers Fear

#31

I didn't have many friends in school. I never tried to fit in - I found other people in my class to be predictable and uninteresting and it took me too much energy to pretend that I was enjoying their company. I went through several years of school with no friends at all - At times, 'cool' kids would invite me to play sports with them after school but I never did. I spent all my lunch breaks alone programming games o…

If you are really happy then just ignore me, this advice is freely given and freely ignored. I only give it because of a perception I have based off of a small glimpse into your life. So if you are happy just ignore it and move on, hopefully I can offer a different perspective.

Sometimes the most difficult thing is to go out of our comfort zone. I'm guessing that's what you want to here from this community, and I'd say it's true. I did the same thing in high school, but I did have a core group of friends who got me (they didn't even attend my hs). My advice is to seek out people who's friendship will last beyond your current situation and who are easy for you to talk to. Difficult people to talk to are important but they aren't the ones we latch onto thought life.

Also, sometimes the hardest thing for me is to talk to people who I think are not as smart as I am, but everyone knows something you don't, even if that is what is fissionable. And who knows you might find someone with common interests, or who wants to talk to you about your game.

Re: By Making a Game Out of Rejection, a Man Conquers Fear

#32
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is how many of those 25% were fake numbers "just to get that creeper off my back". It's nice that you decided to "not be creepy", but it's not you who decides how your behaviour is judged.

That's a bit (I admit not entirely) like saying that "Maybe all those free-throws you practiced between games didn't score us any actual points." 100% of the women he didn't ask did not give him his number. The exercise served the purpose of pushing him past the fear that would have otherwise paralyzed him during a real request.

The analogy would be to throw the ball, but not look if he missed it or not. It's like practicing free throws by blindly throwing ball to basket's general direction and not knowing of outcome.

Re: By Making a Game Out of Rejection, a Man Conquers Fear

#33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a bit (I admit not entirely) like saying that "Maybe all those free-throws you practiced between games didn't score us any actual points." 100% of the women he didn't ask did not give him his number. The exercise served the purpose of pushing him past the fear that would have otherwise paralyzed him during a real request.

Not really at all. The analogy is entirely wrong. Yes, the exercise anecdotally served the purpose of improving his confidence. But no, your assumption that he would be unable to ask for a number he really wanted is unfounded and has nothing to do with your false analogy.

>your assumption that he would be unable to ask for a number he really wanted is unfounded

Not if he has social anxiety.

Re: By Making a Game Out of Rejection, a Man Conquers Fear

#34
This is a good attitude.

My philosophy on failure is a little different. I re-frame my actions as experiments. I come up with a hypothesis, and record the conditions and outcome of my experiments, then do a little mini-analysis on the results to try and understand it. Rather than view getting the outcome I wanted as success, I view learning from the experiment as a success, which is great, because you typically aren't in control of the outcome of events, but you absolutely are in control of how methodical you are. This also causes you to learn a lot faster than you otherwise would, which is great too.

Re: By Making a Game Out of Rejection, a Man Conquers Fear

#35
post #26
post #15

He could accelerate his progress if he just did 50 cold calls to random strangers selling diapers a day - he would be super hardened after a week ;-)

Which raises an interesting question - do people with such jobs deal exceptionally well with rejection? I wouldn't be surprised to learn that they do, but then I wouldn't be if they were more than averagely depressed, either. Surely someone must have looked into this.

I've worked with alongside cold-call sales people - not as a sales person myself.

Largely, my observation of them wasn't that they're particularly thick skinned, nor were they particularly desensitized to rejection. The thing that most of them had in common was that they weren't emotionally bound to the outcome. They didn't care if the person said yes or no - except for the endorphin kick they got when they saw their pay cheque get bigger. For most of them, it was a game they played against each other - in the same way you might enjoy a board game and you strive to win, but the real fun is the camaraderie of the players.

A rejection got a shoulder shrug and a "whatever, next" or a few choice curse words and the finger when the sales person wasted more time than necessary for a sale that never came before quickly moving on to the next call - the previous call forgotten as quickly as the next, unless the conversation was particularly humorous or worth sharing with their compatriots.

Those with no scruples learned to manipulate people really well and got the sales by whatever means necessary. Those that cared got sales by listening to the customer and understanding the customer's needs. Mostly though, almost without exception, those with the most sales were those that got through the highest volume phone calls in a day. The success rate could be skewed to have a higher ratio of sales to calls, but at the end of the day, that took emotional effort and didn't really yield any extra benefit to the sales person - of course, this potentially had a huge negative affect on the reputation of the company. I see the same thing with all the utility companies. Their sales teams are often the first point of contact for a customer. But the sales guys don't care about that, all they care about are the numbers. The rest is for customer service to figure out.

The lesson I learned from watching the sales guys in action is that all things considered equal, the greater the volume of calls, the greater your success. Don't be emotionally involved in the outcome before it's necessary to do so - at the end of the day, you're just asking her to come for coffee with you, you're not asking her to marry you. The more people you ask to go for coffee, the more chance you'll find someone that's got nothing better to do than go for coffee with you - even if you do think they're out of your league (that's another concept I don't believe in, but that's for another day and another post).

Re: By Making a Game Out of Rejection, a Man Conquers Fear

#36
post #26
post #15

He could accelerate his progress if he just did 50 cold calls to random strangers selling diapers a day - he would be super hardened after a week ;-)

Which raises an interesting question - do people with such jobs deal exceptionally well with rejection? I wouldn't be surprised to learn that they do, but then I wouldn't be if they were more than averagely depressed, either. Surely someone must have looked into this.

Social rejection is felt in much the same way as physical pain is.

http://www.pnas.org/content/108/15/6270.abstract

Re: By Making a Game Out of Rejection, a Man Conquers Fear

#37
post #7

If my wife had divorced me and i ended up a crying heap on the floor like this guy i would probably want to try this. Most people are not in that situation though, it's all relative. Fair play to him though.

Fear of failure isn't something that only people who've been divorced and are crying heaps experience. If you've ever hesitated to ask a girl (or man) out, you know what this guy's talking about. I think this is a pretty novel approach to confronting that fear.

I wouldn't say novel. This has been a standard method in the PUA community for ages.

Re: By Making a Game Out of Rejection, a Man Conquers Fear

#38
post #8

As a teenager I went to an all boys school, so was very shy with women. One day I just decided to get over my fear and resolved to ask for the telephone number of every pretty girl that caught my attention in public, even if they were with other girls. Importantly to the process was that it was never my intention to actually call the girl - just to see what percentage gave me their number. Since the outcome was not i…

Using women as a prop for self confidence is pretty douchey.

Re: By Making a Game Out of Rejection, a Man Conquers Fear

#39
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which raises an interesting question - do people with such jobs deal exceptionally well with rejection? I wouldn't be surprised to learn that they do, but then I wouldn't be if they were more than averagely depressed, either. Surely someone must have looked into this.

I've worked with alongside cold-call sales people - not as a sales person myself. Largely, my observation of them wasn't that they're particularly thick skinned, nor were they particularly desensitized to rejection. The thing that most of them had in common was that they weren't emotionally bound to the outcome. They didn't care if the person said yes or no - except for the endorphin kick they got when they saw their…

People are certainly "out of each other's league," at least in the sense that some people do not measure up to others' desires.

Of course, you can't really know what their qualifications are. Only they know, and they're going to run deeper than first impressions. So no, they're not out of your league yet!

Re: By Making a Game Out of Rejection, a Man Conquers Fear

#40
post #8

As a teenager I went to an all boys school, so was very shy with women. One day I just decided to get over my fear and resolved to ask for the telephone number of every pretty girl that caught my attention in public, even if they were with other girls. Importantly to the process was that it was never my intention to actually call the girl - just to see what percentage gave me their number. Since the outcome was not i…

Using women as a prop for self confidence is pretty douchey.

I don't find anything in that story to be douchey.

What he's really doing is using interaction with women as practice to be better at interaction with women.

I'm not really sure how else he should do it.

Maybe he could have established friendships with them, and "used" them even further?

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