Summing up a bunch of comments, rather than littering the thread: * There is no LN present in the final product. LN is literally nitrogen in liquid state, and nitrogen is gaseous at sane temperatures. You add it in relatively small amounts, and it evaporates away. It is absolutely not safe to consume LN. * Yes: you need to ask your LN supplier if the LN is food-safe. This is an easier thing to verify than that a dewa…
A Liquid Nitrogen Cocktail Party
31–40 of 69 posts
Re: A Liquid Nitrogen Cocktail Party
#32The other thing I would worry about is the source of the liquid nitrogen. If you're actively adding LN to something you consume, I'd want to make sure I knew what was in it. I have a feeling that the LN suppliers for welding don't care if nasty stuff gets in their LN (stored in an unclean container).
Anyway. Although superficially it sounds shocking that a welding supplier would certify their product as food safe, all their gasses are designed for welding, like welding stainless steel food processing gear. So its safe enough to use anything they sell for industrial use, you'll be OK. If you think they're scared of giving you cooties, they're much more terrified of causing a dairy plant to loose its license. Its clean stuff. Also, they're terrified you or they will "cross the streams" with a O2 supply causing a huge explosion if there's any grease or oil contamination, so you can be absolutely sure nothing oily or burnable ever came near the gear, don't even worry about that class of contaminant. If you think about it, flooding something with N2 specifically to prevent chemical reactions means its not fit for sale unless its ridiculously pure. So it is.
Another chemistry problem is you're looking for something that could end up in the product stream without being filtered out or destroyed by the process gear (or destroying the process gear), so kryptonite is kinda unlikely. Also it has to be liq at liq n2 temps because a gas would blow away and a solid (dirty ice, lets say) would remain stuck to the container. Good luck finding a substance like that. I'm pretty much out of chemistry ideas for a food contaminant.
Re: A Liquid Nitrogen Cocktail Party
#33For anybody thinking of doing this, finding someone who has (serious, lab-setting) experience handling LN2 and can personally supervise would be a really good idea.
Re: A Liquid Nitrogen Cocktail Party
#34Dumb question. When you're making ice-cream / drinks are you actually mixing liquid nitrogen as an ingredient into these drinks / foods? I thought it was solely an agent to quickly cool things I wasn't aware you were actually ingesting liquid nitrogen. Does it modify the taste at all? Is it safe?
It's air.
Just like how when you cook things, you often use "burning air". If you eat something burning? You will destroy your insides. The difference is that freakishly-destructive levels of cold don't ruin food nearly as fast as freakishly-destructive levels of hot. If we blasted your food with a rocket-engine, it would be too hot to eat, but it would also be charcoal. If we blasted your food with liquid nitrogen, it would still look like food and would still be edible after it returns to normal temperature, so there'd be more temptation to try to eat it while it's still lethally cold. Hence the danger.
Re: A Liquid Nitrogen Cocktail Party
#35For anybody thinking of doing this, finding someone who has (serious, lab-setting) experience handling LN2 and can personally supervise would be a really good idea.
I second this. I've had LN ice cream and it was delicious. The process was fun, and no one got hurt. Unfortunately, i think that was more due to luck than to having a protocol for handling the stuff.
They do have protocols for handling the stuff, there is always a master of ceremony who is well versed in the process and various modes of failure, and nobody is ever imbibing at these parties (at least not to your knowledge).
I probably shouldn't talk about the cardboard boat making competition and the second part of the competition with depth charges made with liquid nitrogen and soda bottles, but ... oops. You all didn't hear that. Now I'm going on a watch-list for sure, aren't I.
Re: A Liquid Nitrogen Cocktail Party
#36The other thing I would worry about is the source of the liquid nitrogen. If you're actively adding LN to something you consume, I'd want to make sure I knew what was in it. I have a feeling that the LN suppliers for welding don't care if nasty stuff gets in their LN (stored in an unclean container).
A long time ago in a galaxy far far away I got to screw around with LN dewars for waveguide pressurization and also extremely high power coax feedline pressurization. You want about 2 or so PSI (varies by system) to keep water out and eliminate all chance of corrosion. The density of liq N2 is such that a small liq tank is the equivalent of a staggeringly large gas N2 pressurization system like the size of a tank car…
Re: A Liquid Nitrogen Cocktail Party
#37Earlier quoted context omitted.
I feel really dense asking this, but I don't have the faintest idea how the procedures you've mentioned prevent consumption of liquid nitrogen. When chilling a glass, you dump out the LN. OK. That makes some sense. But then when making ice cream, you put LN directly into the bowl while mixing. Huh? edit: I can see why you don't want to provide too many details. I will just say this story, while very interesting, terr…
I have seen stands at local fairs that make LN ice cream to order. It's pretty neat. I haven't done it, but they have 16 year olds doing it presumably without incident.
Re: A Liquid Nitrogen Cocktail Party
#38Summing up a bunch of comments, rather than littering the thread: * There is no LN present in the final product. LN is literally nitrogen in liquid state, and nitrogen is gaseous at sane temperatures. You add it in relatively small amounts, and it evaporates away. It is absolutely not safe to consume LN. * Yes: you need to ask your LN supplier if the LN is food-safe. This is an easier thing to verify than that a dewa…
I'm curious how much you paid for the 20 liter dewar. Here in London, just renting a dewar as a one-off and filling with culinary-grade LN2 was amazingly expensive (several hundred pounds). I wanted to do some LN2 demos and also LN2 ice cream at my daughters' party, but instead opted for much simpler and cheaper (and less fun) dry ice.
Re: A Liquid Nitrogen Cocktail Party
#39Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have seen stands at local fairs that make LN ice cream to order. It's pretty neat. I haven't done it, but they have 16 year olds doing it presumably without incident.
There is a stand at the Mount Pleasant Farmers Market in Washington, DC, that does LN ice cream. I've never tried it--partly because I don't eat much ice cream, partly because I don't see the point.
It's also easier in many ways for them. You don't even have to have freezers, since you're spot freezing everything. It saves you from buying a batch freezer for making it, which is $30,000 used. I'm told that if you're buying LN regularly, the distributor will hook you up with the tank at a low monthly fee. So it's probably much cheaper to start a stand that way.
The downside is it's a little less time-efficient. It's REALLY easy to make a 5 gallon batch of ice cream in a Carpigiani.
Re: A Liquid Nitrogen Cocktail Party
#40Interesting fact about liquid nitrogen (that I learned from Dave Arnold's book, which is fantastic): liquid nitrogen is ~700x denser than gaseous nitrogen. So, if you vaporize a moderate amount of liquid in a contained space (e.g. spilling a dewar in a car or elevator): even if you manage to avoid touching the nitrogen itself, the gas can crowd out the oxygen and you can asphyxiate yourself. Since it's odorless and c…
One of the coolest LN2 tricks we used to do at our physics demo days took advantage of this - making bubbles the 'fun way'. Take a big pot of boiling water and add some dish soap. Wearing your protective gear, dump a few liters of LN2 into the water/soap mixture, and see it explosively create 700x its volume in bubbles!
Here's someone doing something similar (he uses room-temp water, not hot, so the bubbles come out 'frozen') https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5ZAoHxhihU
On your comment about displacing air - in my actual research (when we weren't making LN2 bubbles) we used alot of Liquid Helium (for reference, LN2 at 77K is about 1/4th room temperature, while LHe at 4.2K is 1/70th room temperature). We'd often have superconducting magnet running with fields up to 10T, which IIRC required nearly 100A of current in the freakishly-thin superconducting magnet wire which was submerged in the bottom of the LHe bath in the cryostat. It's possible that the magnet could 'quench' where part of it goes 'normal', immediately heating up due to the huge current, causing more of the magnet to go normal, causing more heating, which eventually boils off all the LHe, releasing HUGE quantities of He gas into the room. Even something simple like transferring LHe from the storage dewar to our cryostat, or cooling down a cryostat the first time, releases huge amount of He gas into the room. I was glad we had an oxygen meter in the lab (which I demanded our adviser buy, she didn't want to waste the money on it at first).