Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Story of Schiit Audio (2014)

head-fi.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 51 posts

Re: The Story of Schiit Audio (2014)

#31

Post by ferongr »

cthalupa wrote: post #30
ferongr wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>That is fairly standard precaution with the higher end of audio equipment No it's not, that's called bad design. Unless high-end now stands for "poorly designed gear sold for 10 times what they're worth".

I don't know of many big ticket amps you can turn on before you turn on your big ticket preamps and don't run a risk of having an expensive bad day. Why? Because you are amplifying the turn on signal from the source or preamp. Every time you have ever turned audio equipment on and heard that thump or pop, you are hearing the same phenomenon that ran the risk of damaging headphones left plugged in. It just so happens…

The volume control operates on the preamp section, the thump of amplifiers is usually generated on the power amplifier section, usually a sign of a bipolar power supply that at startup and power down rises/lowers voltage unevenly, resulting in DC output to the speakers.

Turning down the volume will do nothing, you have to remove the load and in many cases (speakers) that's infeasible. Not to mention something like a brownout/power loss could end up damaging the transducer anyway.

Being "high-end" is no excuse, cut-off relays do not affect sound quality and they are not expensive. It's just either laziness or advertising to people that don't know better. Again, there is no reason not to install shut-off relays.

Re: The Story of Schiit Audio (2014)

#32

Post by _broody »

ggreer wrote: post #13
darklajid wrote: post #5

I didn't know about this company. Can anyone explain to my if this [1] is something more than snakeoil? 1: http://schiit.com/products/wyrd

Some of their products are worse than snake oil. When powering off, Schiit's Asgard amp can output enough DC to damage some headphones. One Head-Fi user recorded a video of this happening. NWAvGuy tried to get answers from Jason Stoddard and ended up being banned from the Head-Fi forums. The whole fiasco is summarized on NWAvGuy's blog.[1] Of course NWAvGuy isn't the most tactful person, but Head-Fi's reaction seems…

Yes, that was an absolute fiasco, but it's more of a problem with Head-Fi banning anyone who criticizes their sponsors because they make their money off of nurturing massive audiophile cargo cults.

Schiit products are battle-tested, high quality and high-value. You can tell the company is run by people who care about what they do.

Re: The Story of Schiit Audio (2014)

#34

Post by ssalazar »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #11
cthalupa wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not entirely sure that I'd consider that insulting, but, from the forward: Be memorable—this isn’t about getting everyone to like you, this is about getting some people to love you. The company isn't built around catering to a massive amount of people, but instead a niche. And there's definitely a market out there that is very much swayed by the "Made in the USA, from parts sourced in the USA" line of rhetoric

Yeah, absolutely, and I really like a lot of what I'm reading in the .PDF that darinf put together. But this is still an instance of taking the low road. We all live on the same planet, and commercial jingoism isn't the way forward. Edit: if you "aren't sure if you consider it insulting," try reversing the roles. Imagine a Chinese company that brags about how they avoid using parts and labor from the US whenever poss…

Having spent time in China and having experience with Chinese manufacturers, I wager most Chinese would continue to take our money and ignore minor slights such as this, if you can even call it that. The immediate need to jump up and be offended by the smallest thing, especially on behalf of the "Other"/non-Westerners, is a phenomenon fairly unique to the Western world.

Re: The Story of Schiit Audio (2014)

#35

Post by Hydraulix989 »

cthalupa wrote: post #17
ggreer wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of their products are worse than snake oil. When powering off, Schiit's Asgard amp can output enough DC to damage some headphones. One Head-Fi user recorded a video of this happening. NWAvGuy tried to get answers from Jason Stoddard and ended up being banned from the Head-Fi forums. The whole fiasco is summarized on NWAvGuy's blog.[1] Of course NWAvGuy isn't the most tactful person, but Head-Fi's reaction seems…

>Some of their products are worse than snake oil. When powering off, Schiit's Asgard amp can output enough DC to damage some headphones. Early versions of the product came without a power relay, with the implication being you should have the volume pot all the way down, and unplug your headphones before ever turning the amp on or off. That is fairly standard precaution with the higher end of audio equipment, which bo…

"NWAvGuy wasn't actually banned for his interactions with Schiit, but due to the very strict advertising rules at Head-Fi."

And Al Capone was nabbed for tax invasion. If they want to lock you up, they will.

Re: The Story of Schiit Audio (2014)

#36

Post by seanp2k2 »

mkozlows wrote: post #21
qb45 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their FAQ states that it provides its own 5V power supply for the downstream device and somehow retransmits the USB packets using a high accuracy clock. The power issue is definitely legitimate. USB power supplies are noisy and the noise can bleed to analog outputs if the soundcard has poor power supply noise rejection - I once built a USB-powered soundcard on the at90usb162 microcontroller and it produced a lot of b…

Re "whether this is important in real world scenarios", in the context of high-end audio, there are four types of products: 1. Those that make clearly audible and measurable differences. Speakers, headphones, and upgrading from total rock-bottom near-broken electronics. 2. Those that make measurable differences that probably aren't audible. Various super-low distortion figures on amps and DACs, or going from 320kbps…

While I don't disagree with any of your points, I do think that a great many people enjoy not just accuracy / objectively more-accurate sound, but certain distortions. The classic example here is a tube amp; while measurably less accurate than many solid-state amps, many people like the slight distortion / compression / "tube sound".

Re: The Story of Schiit Audio (2014)

#37

Post by seanp2k2 »

cthalupa wrote: post #30
ferongr wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>That is fairly standard precaution with the higher end of audio equipment No it's not, that's called bad design. Unless high-end now stands for "poorly designed gear sold for 10 times what they're worth".

I don't know of many big ticket amps you can turn on before you turn on your big ticket preamps and don't run a risk of having an expensive bad day. Why? Because you are amplifying the turn on signal from the source or preamp. Every time you have ever turned audio equipment on and heard that thump or pop, you are hearing the same phenomenon that ran the risk of damaging headphones left plugged in. It just so happens…

There's also nothing wrong with cars which don't pop the lock back open if the car is off and the key is in the ignition, except that when such a technology exists, is pretty cheap / easy to implement, and can save users potentially a lot of trouble, why would you not implement it?

I would argue that there is something wrong with amps / pre-amps which pop when turned on: it's sloppy design which doesn't even save much cost, and the risk is huge for end-users. Humans make mistakes. I don't think anyone would propose that a checklist be used every time you want to turn on your hi-fi because some EE (or very likely some Chinese ODM) wanted to save a few wires and a few cents.

Re: The Story of Schiit Audio (2014)

#38

Post by seanp2k2 »

loosescrews wrote: post #26
sondr3 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you upgrade straight to the Bifrost/Asgard or did you have something like the Vali/Modi before or? I currently have those, but I'm looking at upgrades some time in the future.

I can't speak for cnkeller, but I first got a Modi and Magni. The Modi was good enough, but the Magni wasn't. The problems with the Magni were that it wasn't grounded and its volume pot sucked. The lack of grounding made it very susceptible to interference and crappy volume pot made fine adjustments in volume impossible. I replaced it with an Asgard 2 and have been satisfied ever since. I suspect that the newer cheap…

It's pretty sad IMO when anyone selling a >$100 amp cheaps out on the volume pot, since it's a really obvious thing to upgrade, and Alps Blue Velvet pots are used in almost every hobbyist design. I would further question where else they tried to save money. This is a big part of why I like open-design amps / hobbyist / community-designed amps / kits.

Re: The Story of Schiit Audio (2014)

#39

Post by cthalupa »

ferongr wrote: post #31
cthalupa wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know of many big ticket amps you can turn on before you turn on your big ticket preamps and don't run a risk of having an expensive bad day. Why? Because you are amplifying the turn on signal from the source or preamp. Every time you have ever turned audio equipment on and heard that thump or pop, you are hearing the same phenomenon that ran the risk of damaging headphones left plugged in. It just so happens…

The volume control operates on the preamp section, the thump of amplifiers is usually generated on the power amplifier section, usually a sign of a bipolar power supply that at startup and power down rises/lowers voltage unevenly, resulting in DC output to the speakers. Turning down the volume will do nothing, you have to remove the load and in many cases (speakers) that's infeasible. Not to mention something like a…

>The volume control operates on the preamp section

I'm aware of this - you'll notice I mentioned the volume control specifically for the Schiit gear, and not preamps or power amps in general. If you're using separate preamps and amps, then yes, turning down the volume on the preamp isn't going to matter. With almost all headphone setups, you are doing all volume control on the amp though, and none on the dac - it's pretty rare for there to be a dedicated preamp in the chain when dealing with computer -> headphones.

>Turning down the volume will do nothing

Again, specifically referring to the Schiit gear here, with the volume control details being specifically from them. Sorry if there was confusion and it seemed as if I was saying this in general.

>Being "high-end" is no excuse, cut-off relays do not affect sound quality and they are not expensive. It's just either laziness or advertising to people that don't know better. Again, there is no reason not to install shut-off relays.

Plenty of the best gear out there will include power up sequence instructions - Amps being last on, first off, is something that has been pretty standard for decades. Like James Bongiorno said, even if a muting relay is installed, why tempt fate for no real gain? I'm sure I've got Cary and Audio Research manuals around somewhere with their power up sequences printed in them - are you going to accuse them of shoddy design as well?

My issue isn't with the relays - I'd love it if everything came with one. I don't think there's a downside to having them. (Though habit will keep me using the same power sequence I've been using for forever)

My issue is you've decided that anything that lacks said muting relay is poorly designed or not worth the price:

>No it's not, that's called bad design. Unless high-end now stands for "poorly designed gear sold for 10 times what they're worth"

It's audio equipment. Shouldn't the ultimate judgment on the quality of design be how it actually functions in it's intended purpose, and not whether or not it's the most convenient? Companies have been selling great sounding gear (that measures well) and lasts decades that lack a relay. I simply can't agree that lacking an optional piece that exists only to protect someone from something that they can perform manually overrides every other aspect of the product's design and makes it a poorly designed product.

Re: The Story of Schiit Audio (2014)

#40

Post by CamperBob2 »

throwawayaway wrote: post #29
CamperBob2 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So Chinese military contractors sell high-end consumer audio equipment in the US now?

you didn't specify high end consumer audio equipment. anything made within those restrictions has a high chance of being made by capable people and as such would be a positive indicator for a buyer such as me. i gave the military grade stuff as an example of something made within those restrictions by capable people.

Looks like I woke up on the wrong side of the fence. I'll show myself out.
Post reply on HN