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Can a simple algebra test predict programming aptitude?

codeup.com

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Re: Can a simple algebra test predict programming aptitude?

#31

Post by rjbwork »

slashnull wrote: post #22

"Programming"? What kind of "programming"? What "ability"? Ability to write space-O(my_god * n) sorting algorithms? Ability to duct-tape queries to an ill-documented SOAP webservice and upsert the return into a Your-Boss-Normal-Form database schema? Ability to brutally optimize the runtime of a really hairy numerical analysis algorithm? Ability to design a centralized data pipeline architecture and lead 12 hackers du…

>Computer Science students convinced that Linux is 100% not worth learning, in any way, because nobody uses it.

I learned Linux, and used it all throughout school. We never touched Windows or learned about how to develop on it.

I am now a full time, happily-embedded-in-the-windows- ecosystem C# developer.

I think fundamentals + balance of education on implementations is a more practical approach for a CS curriculum rather than "OMG LINUX IS TEH BEST AND ONLY".

Re: Can a simple algebra test predict programming aptitude?

#33

Post by spacehome »

Rooster61 wrote: post #26

I really don't want to sound rude, but this sounds like a classic case of correlation not causality, and I could see the consequences really hurting some people. I am REALLY terrible at algebra (to the extent that I am borderline LD in math), and I have completed a degree in CS and hold a steady job as a software engineer. And I am definitely not the only one. Ask a room full of developers how many are bad at math, a…

I don't think the author claimed causality. He's interested in prediction, for which correlation is perfectly well-suited.

Also, nobody is claiming that the correlation is perfect. You can perfectly well see outliers in his graphs, but outliers don't disprove the correlation.

Re: Can a simple algebra test predict programming aptitude?

#36

Post by codezero »

Aptitude tests really annoy me. At least for me, when I was told that I was bad at math, it discouraged me and I didn't pursue it. Later when I was all grown up and decided to go back to school, I really applied myself and it turns out I was pretty good at physics and math, despite my aptitude when I was a teen.

Re: Can a simple algebra test predict programming aptitude?

#37

Post by drcomputer »

mgirdley wrote: post #10
drcomputer wrote: post #7

How is programming aptitude measured and defined?

Codeup CEO here: it's the instructors evaluating the students based on their interactions with then and answering the question: how capable is this person of building quality web applications?

I'm just wondering whether the model of which they base their programming problems for web apps is isomorphic (structurally preserving) to algebraic concepts.

Computer science and development in school is very different from computer science and development in the real world. You don't get to know what you have to know before you know it - that information doesn't exist in the ether of the collective consciousness anywhere. You have to draw it out from yourself.

You might not even know the words for the concepts you have to create in the real world - because they aren't defined, and it's different from pattern matching, finding invariants, optimizing around invariants, simplifying semantically and forming relational constructions. It's different from probabilistic modelling and inference. It's different from a machine doing all those things and a human reasoning on top of it, turtles all the way down (or up, rather).

If you really want to teach people, you have to be able to believe that every person has the capacity to exceed their boundaries and even perhaps demonstrate that you can exceed your own.

This is really philosophical at this point, but don't make the mistakes I've seen tons of educational institutions make. Don't define your students before they learn how to define themselves. Coding at it's core is a creative endeavor. If you want to build robots, code. If you want to build students, learn.

Re: Can a simple algebra test predict programming aptitude?

#39

Post by erroneousfunk »

mathattack wrote: post #28

For an article about math, they seem surprisingly weak at differentiating between causation and correlation. It’s fairly common for incoming Computer Science majors to ask the question, “Why do I have to learn all this math if I just want to learn to program?” The correlation above suggests a possible answer: The ability to understand basic mathematics is likely correlated with the ability to “think algorithmically,”…

They may be bad at differentiating causation and correlation, however, if they're just using the results as a way to try and predict which candidates will do better in the classes, this seems like a pretty good application. They're not going around teaching people algebra, based on this hypothesis -- they're recruiting potentially good programmers.

However, it is correct that educators would need to do a little more research if they want to try and apply these results to a classroom.

Re: Can a simple algebra test predict programming aptitude?

#40

Post by slashnull »

rjbwork wrote: post #31
slashnull wrote: post #22

"Programming"? What kind of "programming"? What "ability"? Ability to write space-O(my_god * n) sorting algorithms? Ability to duct-tape queries to an ill-documented SOAP webservice and upsert the return into a Your-Boss-Normal-Form database schema? Ability to brutally optimize the runtime of a really hairy numerical analysis algorithm? Ability to design a centralized data pipeline architecture and lead 12 hackers du…

>Computer Science students convinced that Linux is 100% not worth learning, in any way, because nobody uses it. I learned Linux, and used it all throughout school. We never touched Windows or learned about how to develop on it. I am now a full time, happily-embedded-in-the-windows- ecosystem C# developer. I think fundamentals + balance of education on implementations is a more practical approach for a CS curriculum r…

At least you understand the nuance between a computer and an OS. This is a pretty arcane piece of knowledge, these days.
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