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When Korea imposed a limit on working hours, did it make people happier?

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Re: When Korea imposed a limit on working hours, did it make people happier?

#31

Post by s3nnyy »

dirktheman wrote: post #28
s3nnyy wrote: post #20

Happiness-wise South Korea ranks 41. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Happiness_Report ). Here in Switzerland (3rd in happiness) it is not unusual that people are employed only 3-4 days / week and still make enough money to live well. I don't know of any other country where this is commonplace. (Full disclosure: If you're from the EU and looking for a tech-job over here, I'd be happy to help out).

Same here at the number 4 on the list... I work 4 days a week, my wife works 3. My employer also works 4. My day off is awesome, and accounts for a lot of my happiness. And the happiness of my kids, I'm sure! US may be the leading in economy, but we (Northern and Western Europe) are way ahead of you guys when it comes to a healthy work-life balance...

Maybe also that is why big things come from the US? True pain-points are more obvious in a place where one is not pampered and protected by society too much?

Re: When Korea imposed a limit on working hours, did it make people happier?

#32

Post by _delirium »

s3nnyy wrote: post #20

Happiness-wise South Korea ranks 41. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Happiness_Report ). Here in Switzerland (3rd in happiness) it is not unusual that people are employed only 3-4 days / week and still make enough money to live well. I don't know of any other country where this is commonplace. (Full disclosure: If you're from the EU and looking for a tech-job over here, I'd be happy to help out).

It's recently also becoming common in Denmark to work only a few days a week, especially in tech. Working 2-4 days/week at a "regular" tech job is a popular way to fund your startup. Usually it's fairly linear, e.g. you can negotiate to work 75% time for 75% pay. The fact that companies don't typically provide benefits other than pay and pension contribution helps, I think. I have friends in the U.S. who are worried about going from "full-time" to "part-time" status, because they'd lose things like healthcare coverage, childcare, maternity/paternity leave, etc. But full-time vs. part-time doesn't matter as much when the social system is decoupled from employment.

Re: When Korea imposed a limit on working hours, did it make people happier?

#33

Post by [deleted] »

dirktheman wrote: post #28
s3nnyy wrote: post #20

Happiness-wise South Korea ranks 41. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Happiness_Report ). Here in Switzerland (3rd in happiness) it is not unusual that people are employed only 3-4 days / week and still make enough money to live well. I don't know of any other country where this is commonplace. (Full disclosure: If you're from the EU and looking for a tech-job over here, I'd be happy to help out).

Same here at the number 4 on the list... I work 4 days a week, my wife works 3. My employer also works 4. My day off is awesome, and accounts for a lot of my happiness. And the happiness of my kids, I'm sure! US may be the leading in economy, but we (Northern and Western Europe) are way ahead of you guys when it comes to a healthy work-life balance...

[deleted]

Re: When Korea imposed a limit on working hours, did it make people happier?

#34

Post by [deleted] »

dirktheman wrote: post #28
s3nnyy wrote: post #20

Happiness-wise South Korea ranks 41. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Happiness_Report ). Here in Switzerland (3rd in happiness) it is not unusual that people are employed only 3-4 days / week and still make enough money to live well. I don't know of any other country where this is commonplace. (Full disclosure: If you're from the EU and looking for a tech-job over here, I'd be happy to help out).

Same here at the number 4 on the list... I work 4 days a week, my wife works 3. My employer also works 4. My day off is awesome, and accounts for a lot of my happiness. And the happiness of my kids, I'm sure! US may be the leading in economy, but we (Northern and Western Europe) are way ahead of you guys when it comes to a healthy work-life balance...

[deleted]

Re: When Korea imposed a limit on working hours, did it make people happier?

#35

Post by _dark_matter_ »

s3nnyy wrote: post #31
dirktheman wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same here at the number 4 on the list... I work 4 days a week, my wife works 3. My employer also works 4. My day off is awesome, and accounts for a lot of my happiness. And the happiness of my kids, I'm sure! US may be the leading in economy, but we (Northern and Western Europe) are way ahead of you guys when it comes to a healthy work-life balance...

Maybe also that is why big things come from the US? True pain-points are more obvious in a place where one is not pampered and protected by society too much?

Talk about jumping to conclusions. This is both a gross misunderstanding of their culture and government, as well as unsubstantiated claims of causation.

Re: When Korea imposed a limit on working hours, did it make people happier?

#36

Post by rsynnott »

mathattack wrote: post #22
qwerta wrote: post #4

I can speek for Greece, where is ban on sunday work. For workers it just means they have to work unpaid (and undeclared) overtimes. If you wont to make people happy, just introduce double pay for overtimes and really enforce it!

I worked at lots of places with official 8 hour days. In reality some (senior) people worked 6, and many (junior) worked 12-16. Hard to imagine a top down law limiting working hours will have much effect. It's attacking the cosmetics of a symptom, and not the real cause. That said... Let's list several big ifs... If... The last few marginal hours are more productive than hiring someone new. And If... The economy is a…

Enforcement of the Working Time Directive varies a lot within Europe, but in many countries it is quite strictly enforced for most roles (at least for companies of more than a certain size).

Re: When Korea imposed a limit on working hours, did it make people happier?

#37

Post by s3nnyy »

_dark_matter_ wrote: post #35
s3nnyy wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe also that is why big things come from the US? True pain-points are more obvious in a place where one is not pampered and protected by society too much?

Talk about jumping to conclusions. This is both a gross misunderstanding of their culture and government, as well as unsubstantiated claims of causation.

I am not sure, if I can confirm this, but I find this really amusing:

"If Hewlett and Packard tried running an electronics company out of their garage in Switzerland, the old lady next door would report them to the municipal authorities."

http://www.paulgraham.com/america.html

(I guess, PG visited Switzerland, while he was an exchange student in Italy.)

Re: When Korea imposed a limit on working hours, did it make people happier?

#38

Post by seanstickle »

I favor something more like a Results-Only Work Environment (http://gorowe.com/pages/rowe-standards), where the focus is on the results and not on how many hours are worked.

Too many companies (even startups) are conservatives and traditionalists in the sense of thinking that work needs to be done within certain hours and at a certain place, even when those are not drivers of the results.

I'm hired to deliver certain results, not to work a number of hours. If it takes me 10 hours or 40 hours to deliver those results, that's up to me, as long as the deadlines are hit and the deliverables are high-quality. And there's no reason to be in an office, unless the office is instrumental to achieving those results.

The focus on how many hours people should work is a fetish that reinforces a still-dominant 20th century office culture.

Re: When Korea imposed a limit on working hours, did it make people happier?

#40

Post by mathattack »

rsynnott wrote: post #36
mathattack wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked at lots of places with official 8 hour days. In reality some (senior) people worked 6, and many (junior) worked 12-16. Hard to imagine a top down law limiting working hours will have much effect. It's attacking the cosmetics of a symptom, and not the real cause. That said... Let's list several big ifs... If... The last few marginal hours are more productive than hiring someone new. And If... The economy is a…

Enforcement of the Working Time Directive varies a lot within Europe, but in many countries it is quite strictly enforced for most roles (at least for companies of more than a certain size).

I previously worked for a private French firm with ~700 Paris based employees. They worked very long hours, even by US standards. I thought, "If it can't be mandated here, it can't be mandated anywhere."
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