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JWZ and the Palm App Catalog, Part II

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Re: JWZ and the Palm App Catalog, Part II

#31

Post by throw_away »

jsz0 wrote: post #28

Has this gentleman addressed why he's developing for the Pre in the first place? It seems like Android would be a much better fit for him. There are more Android handsets out there, multiple models with many more on the way, and the OS has a very clear future ahead of it. It feels like some self imposed torture on his part. Both Palm and Apple make their terms pretty clear -- there's no bait & switch here from what I…

He doesn't trust google & won't create a google account. I'm not an android user, but I believe that this precludes a lot of the functionality on an android phone. Last week he was looking for an RSS reader replacement, but wouldn't consider google reader.

Re: JWZ and the Palm App Catalog, Part II

#32

Post by icefox »

bhousel wrote: post #22
icefox wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see any reason why palm couldn't still disable evil apps no matter where they came from.

What if the evil app removes their capability to do so?

If the app was on the device from the web or from a store it could remove their capability, but if the app is not yet on the device palm can easily upload a list of bad apps to not allow to run. Presumably this is what they would have to do with an existing app store app that went bad as a way to kill the one that have already been installed.

Re: JWZ and the Palm App Catalog, Part II

#33

Post by barrkel »

bhousel wrote: post #11

I really think his interpretation on the "second citizen" app catalog is completely wrong. I've read the palm release and it doesn't say that at all.. JWZ had a very valid point the first time around, and he got everyone's attention, deservedly so. But in Part II he comes across as being whiny and rude, even misrepresenting the Palm press release. Maybe he's just angry and needs to cool down?

No, he's right. If Palm has a way to deny a developer the means to let his users install his (open source) application, they are still the middleman. That's the kernel of his objection, and that's still there.

Re: JWZ and the Palm App Catalog, Part II

#34

Post by utexaspunk »

throw_away wrote: post #31
jsz0 wrote: post #28

Has this gentleman addressed why he's developing for the Pre in the first place? It seems like Android would be a much better fit for him. There are more Android handsets out there, multiple models with many more on the way, and the OS has a very clear future ahead of it. It feels like some self imposed torture on his part. Both Palm and Apple make their terms pretty clear -- there's no bait & switch here from what I…

He doesn't trust google & won't create a google account. I'm not an android user, but I believe that this precludes a lot of the functionality on an android phone. Last week he was looking for an RSS reader replacement, but wouldn't consider google reader.

Sounds a little paranoid, to me. He could create a throwaway google account and buy a dev phone, or buy one of the many non-google-branded Android phones either already on the market or coming out this quarter, which can be used without a google account. Once you've got the phone, there's absolutely no requirement that you use a google account whatsoever. The only functionality which requires it are the google apps (gmail, maps, etc, and using the market). There's even a 3rd-party app market already out there (http://slideme.org/)

I don't see how letting google knowing who he is -especially when they probably ALREADY know- is any worse than letting Palm know who he is. For him to tear his hair out over Palm's bullshit, especially when in all likelihood Palm's will probably lose in the end, seems like a futile and masochistic exercise.

Re: JWZ and the Palm App Catalog, Part II

#35

Post by nomoresecrets »

hackoder wrote: post #16
Maciek416 wrote: post #2

One day we're going to look at these dark days of app approval processes, registration fees, application fees, fragmented platforms, crazy APIs and laugh. Or cry. What an awkward phase. I for one hope for a decent cross-platform browser API that lets me access mobile phone functions (database / GPS / camera) in js and just be done with all this drama.

I agree with you. Its sad that we have taken all this stuff as being "normal". From start ($99 fee) to finish (30% of sales), they are ripping developers off. They should be paying developers to build apps that are resulting in more and more sales of these phones.

Pay developers to make apps? This doesn't happen for desktop computers/laptops, games consoles, etc., so why do you think it should be different for mobile phones?

Re: JWZ and the Palm App Catalog, Part II

#36

Post by GHFigs »

hackoder wrote: post #16
Maciek416 wrote: post #2

One day we're going to look at these dark days of app approval processes, registration fees, application fees, fragmented platforms, crazy APIs and laugh. Or cry. What an awkward phase. I for one hope for a decent cross-platform browser API that lets me access mobile phone functions (database / GPS / camera) in js and just be done with all this drama.

I agree with you. Its sad that we have taken all this stuff as being "normal". From start ($99 fee) to finish (30% of sales), they are ripping developers off. They should be paying developers to build apps that are resulting in more and more sales of these phones.

From start ($99 fee) to finish (30% of sales), they are ripping developers off.

That's very subjective. It's apparent that thousands of developers feel that what they get in return is worth the price. If they don't like the price of goods and services, they can choose not to buy them. They are not on the whole being deprived of anything that is owed to them. It's accepted as "normal" because it's the way commerce works everywhere, and because these are very established practices in fields other than desktop software.

They should be paying developers

They are! Why do you think developers are choosing to develop for these platforms? Where do you think the other 70% goes?

Re: JWZ and the Palm App Catalog, Part II

#37

Post by GHFigs »

Raphael wrote: post #17
protomyth wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can see the start of this with the XBox market place where you buy downloadable games. If Apple had a app store for a next generation AppleTV, it would be a very interesting platform.

I really wish people would stop buying into closed platforms. Hook a computer up to a TV and be done with it.

People will stop buying into closed platforms if and when open platforms better meet their demands.

Re: JWZ and the Palm App Catalog, Part II

#38

Post by dagw »

jsz0 wrote: post #28

Has this gentleman addressed why he's developing for the Pre in the first place? It seems like Android would be a much better fit for him. There are more Android handsets out there, multiple models with many more on the way, and the OS has a very clear future ahead of it. It feels like some self imposed torture on his part. Both Palm and Apple make their terms pretty clear -- there's no bait & switch here from what I…

Has this gentleman addressed why he's developing for the Pre in the first place?

He's a long time Palm fan/user/developer from back in the 'good old days'. Also he's said that he thinks the Pre is an very nice platform to program for and finds it far easier than the iPhone. So basically he develops for the Pre because he likes the Pre, he just wishes it was easier to distribute the results for free to other Pre userd.

Re: JWZ and the Palm App Catalog, Part II

#39

Post by hippee-lee »

icefox wrote: post #32
bhousel wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if the evil app removes their capability to do so?

If the app was on the device from the web or from a store it could remove their capability, but if the app is not yet on the device palm can easily upload a list of bad apps to not allow to run. Presumably this is what they would have to do with an existing app store app that went bad as a way to kill the one that have already been installed.

What if the list on my phone is out of date?

Re: JWZ and the Palm App Catalog, Part II

#40

Post by billswift »

protomyth wrote: post #6
ErrantX wrote: post #4

I agree; what he wants is a stellar idea and how it should work for definite. The problem is twofold. Firstly Apple. They achieved unbelievable lockin (even accounting for jailbreaking) with the App Store and are certainly raking in a fortune with it. Im not surprised Palm want a portion of the pie. Secondly; I bet you the Pre is "sold" at a loss. Because Palm looked at the App Store and thought "hey that is a limitl…

I am not sure I see the "open" trend. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the future is the integrated hardware / software / store. Look at game consoles, iphone, and palm pre. The "open" computer might actually be a blip in computing history. (Please Note: I am not liking or advocating this trend)

I don't like it much either, but it mostly depends on what most customers want, whether there is enough value involved for some players to go for niche (hobbyist &/or programmer) markets, and on how well the closed systems can be made to work together (for example exchanging info between phones and other systems).
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