Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Obama likely to expand a foreign-student pipeline the high-tech industry loves

washingtonpost.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 95 posts

Re: Obama likely to expand a foreign-student pipeline the high-tech industry loves

#31

Post by jfaucett »

As a US citizen, this is awesome. If I understand this correctly it means students from anywhere can apply for jobs while studying in the US and continue working in the US after graduation. This just means better products, better ideas, and more innovation you know those common things that spawn from a more competitive marketplace. I just wish other countries would take up the same initiative, for instance in Germany you still have to select german and eu citizens over foreign borns.

Does anyone know of other countries where its very easy to move and start working as a foreigner?

Re: Obama likely to expand a foreign-student pipeline the high-tech industry loves

#32

Post by waterlesscloud »

frozenport wrote: post #9
cryoshon wrote: post #6

If Obama's drive for immigration reform uses the logic of "STEM SHORTAGE!!!" as a basis for expanding OPT, it means that hyperbole has won, and we here at HN will suffer lower wages and a more competitive job market as a result. I'm not actually sure that this is what the rhetoric is going to look like, but the rest of my comment assumes that it will look that way as it pertains to the expansion of OPT. There is no S…

The alternative is an innovation shortage which will destroy your lively hoods in the long term. We are in many ways loosing this battle in manufacturing, I do not want it to happen to software.

What will happen here is that the more innovative Americans will go into other fields. They won't compete for lowering wages.

Why would they when they have better choices?

Re: Obama likely to expand a foreign-student pipeline the high-tech industry loves

#33

Post by eevilspock »

aikah wrote: post #26
LLWM wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a bit sad that you see competition on a global scale as "being fucked over". If someone else can do the same job just as well as you, you think employers should be forced to hire you instead just because you happened to be born in the right country? That's just selfishness that harms everyone else.

> It's a bit sad that you see competition on a global scale as "being fucked over". more offer+equal demand === lower salaries.

I have little sympathy for high tech workers complaining about lower salaries when in fact they are probably in the top 20% if not 10% of the earners in the country.

Sadly, here on HN there is little discussion of how the tech industry could focus more on making this a better world. Even more sadly, the deeper discussions that do surface here quickly get booted off the front page because they are "controversial".

(and of course this will get downvoted)

Re: Obama likely to expand a foreign-student pipeline the high-tech industry loves

#34

Post by HamSession »

LLWM wrote: post #7
cryoshon wrote: post #6

If Obama's drive for immigration reform uses the logic of "STEM SHORTAGE!!!" as a basis for expanding OPT, it means that hyperbole has won, and we here at HN will suffer lower wages and a more competitive job market as a result. I'm not actually sure that this is what the rhetoric is going to look like, but the rest of my comment assumes that it will look that way as it pertains to the expansion of OPT. There is no S…

It's a bit sad that you see competition on a global scale as "being fucked over". If someone else can do the same job just as well as you, you think employers should be forced to hire you instead just because you happened to be born in the right country? That's just selfishness that harms everyone else.

People are not worried about individuals of equal skill taking their jobs, but those of lesser skills.

Example. Individual A : Master's of CS from Stanford, Passed interviews, Java, SQL, Hadoop, JSF - Requested salary - 115k

Individual B : PhD Student at Stanford, Passed interviews, Java, SQL - Requested salary - 95k

Job requirements: Java, SQL, Hadoop, JSF

What would you decide on as the hiring manager, you have a limited amount of funds per year and need to meet a deadline. You know A is more qualified, but B is 20k cheaper. As a manger if time permits you will select B since he is cheaper and can acquire the skills needed in his spare time from his fellow engineers or from online materials. In making this decision B has the advantage due to price manipulation, and you allowing him to work even though he in under qualified.

Some might say this scenario is unrealistic but both candidates are using their salary to improve their lives, it just so happens B takes a lot less money (due to being born in a poorer country) to improve his life then A. Typically what you will see in the valley is B living in an apartment with 4 or 5 other people for 3 to 4 years periodically sending his money to his mother country. He can then start a company easily in that new country with his capital, meanwhile A plans to raise a family locally.

Much of this is happening right now http://www.nbcbayarea.com/investigations/Silicon-Valleys-Bod... Google, Facebook, Linkedin, Everyone does this in the valley.

Re: Obama likely to expand a foreign-student pipeline the high-tech industry loves

#35

Post by waterlesscloud »

jfaucett wrote: post #31

As a US citizen, this is awesome. If I understand this correctly it means students from anywhere can apply for jobs while studying in the US and continue working in the US after graduation. This just means better products, better ideas, and more innovation you know those common things that spawn from a more competitive marketplace. I just wish other countries would take up the same initiative, for instance in Germany…

Funny, isn't it, how all the other countries don't want those better products, better ideas, and more innovation?

Re: Obama likely to expand a foreign-student pipeline the high-tech industry loves

#36

Post by logn »

LLWM wrote: post #7
cryoshon wrote: post #6

If Obama's drive for immigration reform uses the logic of "STEM SHORTAGE!!!" as a basis for expanding OPT, it means that hyperbole has won, and we here at HN will suffer lower wages and a more competitive job market as a result. I'm not actually sure that this is what the rhetoric is going to look like, but the rest of my comment assumes that it will look that way as it pertains to the expansion of OPT. There is no S…

It's a bit sad that you see competition on a global scale as "being fucked over". If someone else can do the same job just as well as you, you think employers should be forced to hire you instead just because you happened to be born in the right country? That's just selfishness that harms everyone else.

If the politicians want to reform the citizenship process, I'm all for that. As it stands, becoming a US citizen is extremely difficult. But what they tend to do is carve out visas to help particular corporations which floods particular labor markets with workers who are often exploited to take low wages.

Also, we already have competition on a global scale, and most people don't complain about that. Read any thread on Ask HN about becoming a freelancer, and it's always acknowledged that you're competing with devs who bill $10/hr but no one is expressing rage towards them.

The tech industry is not unionized. If all we're asking is that in our home country we're not facing unfair competition from non-citizens, I think that's fair. And personally, I'd be happy to see much higher levels of immigration as long as it's spread uniformly across industries and that those people be made full citizens.

Re: Obama likely to expand a foreign-student pipeline the high-tech industry loves

#37

Post by icebraining »

waterlesscloud wrote: post #14
LLWM wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a bit sad that you see competition on a global scale as "being fucked over". If someone else can do the same job just as well as you, you think employers should be forced to hire you instead just because you happened to be born in the right country? That's just selfishness that harms everyone else.

Heck, why have any immigration controls at all? Why have citizenship requirements for any job, up to and including President?

Why indeed.

Re: Obama likely to expand a foreign-student pipeline the high-tech industry loves

#38

Post by icebraining »

cryoshon wrote: post #19
LLWM wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a bit sad that you see competition on a global scale as "being fucked over". If someone else can do the same job just as well as you, you think employers should be forced to hire you instead just because you happened to be born in the right country? That's just selfishness that harms everyone else.

The free market favors the wealth of corporations at the detriment of individual people. The tech companies would absolutely love it if they could get away with paying their workers as little as the developing countries do; decreasing wages results in increased profits, which are the only thing that matter to them. I don't see a reason why we have to abide by their greed when we have so much to lose and nothing to ga…

nothing to gain.

Except for those foreigners who get much higher salaries than at home, plus their whole families and communities thanks to remittances.

Re: Obama likely to expand a foreign-student pipeline the high-tech industry loves

#39

Post by rayiner »

LLWM wrote: post #7
cryoshon wrote: post #6

If Obama's drive for immigration reform uses the logic of "STEM SHORTAGE!!!" as a basis for expanding OPT, it means that hyperbole has won, and we here at HN will suffer lower wages and a more competitive job market as a result. I'm not actually sure that this is what the rhetoric is going to look like, but the rest of my comment assumes that it will look that way as it pertains to the expansion of OPT. There is no S…

It's a bit sad that you see competition on a global scale as "being fucked over". If someone else can do the same job just as well as you, you think employers should be forced to hire you instead just because you happened to be born in the right country? That's just selfishness that harms everyone else.

People are entitled to their self-interest, and it is in peoples' self-interest to avoid the race to the bottom that results from globalization. Furthermore, governments exist to serve their specific constituents, not to hew to abstract humanist principles.

Also, even within the context of abstract humanist principles, immigration isn't wholly positive. My family and I are immigrants to the U.S. It's been great for us, not so great for the country we came from that sees all its bright and ambitious people leave never to return.

Re: Obama likely to expand a foreign-student pipeline the high-tech industry loves

#40

Post by sidko »

thisisdallas wrote: post #29

So who exactly is this helping? Ok, I know it helps out foreign students, but I am asking strictly from an American perspective. First and foremost, the governments job is to serve the American people. How does this specific action of Obama's immigration proposal help the American people as a whole? It's a 100% possibility that I have this wrong but I see two groups who this helps. The first group is foreigners who l…

Without foreign born workers, half of Silicon Valley wouldn't have existed. Is that a good enough reason?
Post reply on HN