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Couple 'fined' £100 for leaving a bad review

m.bbc.co.uk

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Re: Couple 'fined' £100 for leaving a bad review

#31

Post by reduce »

aikah wrote: post #9

I dont understand how this is even legal in Europe.No matter what the contract says.How can this be a legal clause? I dont get it.

In many parts of Europe (among the countries I've worked) the written word of contracts is worshiped as the ultimate authority. What's "the right thing to do" means nothing by comparison. You sign, you're bound by it, unless you put up a massive legal fight. Not only that, but signed contracts are expected to be used vastly more than in the US.

It's a bit of a culture shock when you see the sharp difference in this respect from how the US treats contracts, at least it was for me.

On both sides you have people saying that the business world will collapse if you treat contracts the way that the other side is treating them. I'll refrain from saying which side I think is right, but I guarantee you that these differences are strong and real.

Re: Couple 'fined' £100 for leaving a bad review

#33

Post by pjc50 »

cyphax wrote: post #18
aikah wrote: post #9

I dont understand how this is even legal in Europe.No matter what the contract says.How can this be a legal clause? I dont get it.

I'm not a lawyer and I'm going to appear to play the devil's advocate here, but bear with me and let's say it's not illegal for an agreement to contain such a clause. If it breaks no laws, then why is it illegal? Assuming you have signed an agreement for this knowingly (or at least they presented this agreement to you and it's fair to presume that you've read it before signing it). So what you would have to do is ref…

"Unreasonable" terms may be illegal at common law. And the unfair contract terms act limits the ability to insert unusual contract terms without drawing people's attention to them, especially in contracts where they haven't recieved independent legal advice.

Re: Couple 'fined' £100 for leaving a bad review

#34

Post by esquivalience »

mortov wrote: post #15
adwf wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It probably isn't, but it's in that annoyingly small fee zone where it costs more to take them to court than it does to just accept the fine. I think in this case, they'll probably get the money back from their CC company though.

The hotel made a strategic error so no need for court. Under the UK Consumer Credit Act, when a credit card charge of £100 (or more) is made, the credit card company becomes 'jointly and severally liable'. A charge for a bad review also falls foul of UK Fair Trading legislation which means the couple can pursue the credit card company for the unfair trade breach and reclaim their money that way. Credit card companies…

Good observation, thanks

Re: Couple 'fined' £100 for leaving a bad review

#35

Post by mimog »

jbrooksuk wrote: post #22
mimog wrote: post #20

Why is this on hackernews?

Hacker News does contain a lot of general news too, you know? Recently the same thing occurred with a New York Hotel, where they were fining $500 per bad review.

According to the HackerNews guidelines this story would IMHO be in the 'Off-topic' category for submissions: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Couple 'fined' £100 for leaving a bad review

#36

Post by yourad_io »

seanhandley wrote: post #23

Don't think HN is the place for this.

> Don't think HN is the place for this.

Our sentiment analysis algorithm indicated this is a negative comment. You have been charged $100. Thank you for staying at HN.

All kidding aside, I'd say that yes, HN should be a place for exposing reprehensible business behaviours such as these.

It is even of general "hackerly" interest - like a bad growth hacking technique.

Re: Couple 'fined' £100 for leaving a bad review

#38

Post by pjc50 »

mortov wrote: post #15
adwf wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It probably isn't, but it's in that annoyingly small fee zone where it costs more to take them to court than it does to just accept the fine. I think in this case, they'll probably get the money back from their CC company though.

The hotel made a strategic error so no need for court. Under the UK Consumer Credit Act, when a credit card charge of £100 (or more) is made, the credit card company becomes 'jointly and severally liable'. A charge for a bad review also falls foul of UK Fair Trading legislation which means the couple can pursue the credit card company for the unfair trade breach and reclaim their money that way. Credit card companies…

That breakpoint is a very useful piece of information, thankyou.

Re: Couple 'fined' £100 for leaving a bad review

#39

Post by ajuc »

mpweiher wrote: post #25
cyphax wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a lawyer and I'm going to appear to play the devil's advocate here, but bear with me and let's say it's not illegal for an agreement to contain such a clause. If it breaks no laws, then why is it illegal? Assuming you have signed an agreement for this knowingly (or at least they presented this agreement to you and it's fair to presume that you've read it before signing it). So what you would have to do is ref…

Dunno about the UK, but in Germany "surprising" clauses in everyday contracts such as this with consumers are generally illegal. End of story. If this got as far as a court, case would be over in seconds. Read opening statements, have laugh, verdict, good day. Also don't know which way the EU swings on this, my guess would be towards the German position.

Yup. The alternative is - expect all the clients to read small print on everyday contracts and interpret it correctly. That would be dumb and would slow economy considerably. Imagine hotel making the contract 200 pages long.

Staying for a night at hotel shouldn't require you to hire a lawyer.

Re: Couple 'fined' £100 for leaving a bad review

#40

Post by pjc50 »

mistakoala wrote: post #5
gerry_mander wrote: post #2

=\ charging for a bad review is not going to increase your good reviews. It's like companies don't think before they pull this type of shit.

Many of these small hotel and B&B owners run their businesses as a hobby or retirement plan, which often doesn't quite pan out as the passive income scheme they were anticipating. They don't cope with the responsibilities that entail and can't compete with professional hoteliers who understand visitors slightly better, so they end up chasing the bottom end of the market (it's not unusual to see rooms offered for £10/…

Basil Fawlty was based on a real hotelier.
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