Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Current State of Smart Locks

schuylertowne.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 53 posts

Re: The Current State of Smart Locks

#31

Post by emhart »

prawn wrote: post #21

Could the power/charging issue be handled by a rotatable handle/component that can charge up a battery if it goes flat and leaves you outside? A bit like the wind-up torches you see around the place? Or would it require minutes and minutes of manpower to realistically charge?

Yes, it is a very good idea. That's precisely how the Mas Hamilton/Kaba Mas X-series safe locks work. The dial is rotated a few times first, at which point the lock powers on and can be operated, solenoids fired, etc.

However, those safe locks get to control many other aspects of the mechanical makeup of the lock, and rely on well defined and reliable standards of production of the doors they are applied to. Consumer smart locks don't get that advantage, so the amount of power required to throw a bolt won't always be consistent. I don't know what it would take to ensure enough human power is transferred to provide enough force to always overcome a stuck bolt.

Re: The Current State of Smart Locks

#32

Post by ianferrel »

patcon wrote: post #18

For anyone interested in this space, i recommend looking into ethereum, a bitcoin-like network. There's been lots of talk of "smart property" relating to blockchain technology, and imho, locks are the perfect starter use-case. I mean, locks are all about proving ownership, so what better arena to test the idea of using a cryptographic ledger of ownership. I've spent a little time considering how to port the lockitron…

"I mean, locks are all about proving ownership"

I don't think that's true at all. Locks serve two primary purposes:

1. Access control 2. Intrusion detection

Neither one is really about ownership, but about allowable use. And particularly neither one is about proving ownership.

Re: The Current State of Smart Locks

#33

Post by AdamJacobMuller »

I replaced all of my door locks with Samsung SHS-3320/SHS-3321. These are standard RFID and I can (and did) buy cards/fobs for them super cheap. You can even stick a fob inside your hand/arm/face/whatever if you like: https://dangerousthings.com/shop/xnt-ntag216-2x12mm-glass-ta...

I've been super happy with them with a single caveat. They don't have Z-Wave support. If they made these exact same locks with Z-Wave support I'd replace all of my locks immediately with them. I really would prefer Z-Wave primarily for programming purposes because the existing touch-screen programming can be a bit limiting and it would be nice to be able to combine watching visitors (dog walker or cleaning lady, etc) with allowing access remotely via z-wave (currently they all have their own codes).

That said these locks are rock-solid and I wouldn't give up the physical security that comes from their great construction for anything.

Re: The Current State of Smart Locks

#34

Post by krapp »

rsync wrote: post #6

It is stunning to me that these products exist and are going to be widely deployed. Your front door lock should not talk on the network. It should not have "social features". It should not rely on electricity. Your smoke detector should not be connecting to google servers. Your thermostat should not be connected to facebook. Those are facts. Either you instinctively understand those facts or you will learn them accom…

It's unfortunate you're being downvoted for pointing out something many programmers take for granted - that introducing unnecessary complexity to a security-oriented product makes it less safe by design.

Re: The Current State of Smart Locks

#35

Post by lettercarrier »

Great Read. I see a ton of the GE Supra iBox Lockboxes. I hear they cost realtors a lot and they have no alternative. Perhaps for the VRBO or non-Realtor properties too.

This is a really stupid question, but will there be hybrid locks not for door/access but stuff we never thought could be locked in the old mechanical days? a pack of cigarettes? pill bottle? sleeve to a jacket? briefcase? mouse? baby child-proofing? an envelope?

Re: The Current State of Smart Locks

#36

Post by emhart »

lettercarrier wrote: post #35

Great Read. I see a ton of the GE Supra iBox Lockboxes. I hear they cost realtors a lot and they have no alternative. Perhaps for the VRBO or non-Realtor properties too. This is a really stupid question, but will there be hybrid locks not for door/access but stuff we never thought could be locked in the old mechanical days? a pack of cigarettes? pill bottle? sleeve to a jacket? briefcase? mouse? baby child-proofing?…

Not a stupid question at all. A dive through the patent record reveals a ton of amazing ideas for locking random objects up. in my conversations with Bob Swartz he has been fond of saying that locks are essentially latches, which is a great way to think of them. Here is a quick rundown of locks that have been patented that cover your examples:

Time Lock for Cigarettes: https://www.google.com/patents/US2681560

Combination lock for Pill Bottles: https://www.google.com/patents/US3405828

Ok, not a sleeve, but a mechanical lock for jacket pockets: https://www.google.com/patents/US1138507

and, of course, briefcases take a lot of locks, including very high security ones: http://bagstogo.com.au/Secura-Case-15cm-Security-Briefcase-w...

And thanks for the kind words!

Re: The Current State of Smart Locks

#37

Post by bravo22 »

Pyrodogg wrote: post #25
jerrytsai wrote: post #22

What a thorough and interesting review. I was wondering why all the attention is placed on the locks and have been thinking that, a la many apartment buildings in cities with their buzz-in door locks, why not approach the "smart lock" problem by using electric strikes? A drawback would be you would need to supply power to the door frame, but then you wouldn't have to deal with worrying about when the batteries run ou…

Lockitron is also working on controlling existing electronic strikes. https://lockitron.com/store/buzzer

They're not working on it as something new. That was their first product many years ago.

Re: The Current State of Smart Locks

#38

Post by ianburrell »

prawn wrote: post #21

Could the power/charging issue be handled by a rotatable handle/component that can charge up a battery if it goes flat and leaves you outside? A bit like the wind-up torches you see around the place? Or would it require minutes and minutes of manpower to realistically charge?

Another idea to provide backup power is to have backup battery in the "key". The key wouldn't be need to be mechanical, but electronic, and could provide the juice for emergencies. Another option would be a "key" that acts as microUSB adapter to provide power from phone.

Re: The Current State of Smart Locks

#39

Post by emhart »

ianburrell wrote: post #38
prawn wrote: post #21

Could the power/charging issue be handled by a rotatable handle/component that can charge up a battery if it goes flat and leaves you outside? A bit like the wind-up torches you see around the place? Or would it require minutes and minutes of manpower to realistically charge?

Another idea to provide backup power is to have backup battery in the "key". The key wouldn't be need to be mechanical, but electronic, and could provide the juice for emergencies. Another option would be a "key" that acts as microUSB adapter to provide power from phone.

Latter idea is mentioned in the post, though...clocking in at ~7500 words I blame absolutely no one for not getting to the end haha

Re: The Current State of Smart Locks

#40

Post by semanticist »

krapp wrote: post #34
rsync wrote: post #6

It is stunning to me that these products exist and are going to be widely deployed. Your front door lock should not talk on the network. It should not have "social features". It should not rely on electricity. Your smoke detector should not be connecting to google servers. Your thermostat should not be connected to facebook. Those are facts. Either you instinctively understand those facts or you will learn them accom…

It's unfortunate you're being downvoted for pointing out something many programmers take for granted - that introducing unnecessary complexity to a security-oriented product makes it less safe by design.

I think they're being down-voted by listing some opinions and finishing with 'these are facts'.

Maybe networked door locks are a poor idea, maybe they're not. There's nowhere near enough of them in use right now for consumer risk to be assessed and determining 'facts' is a long way off. That kind of arrogance is obnoxious and should be down-voted. It doesn't add to the discussion, it doesn't add to anyone's understanding of the risks involved, it just acts to shut down conversation and is negative and damaging to the community.

Looking at similar advances in car locking technology - where 'keyless entry' or 'keyless go' is a common high-end car feature, suggests that it might actually be possible to have this balance of convenience and security.

Post reply on HN