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Inmates at California’s San Quentin prison learn to code

arstechnica.com

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Re: Inmates at California’s San Quentin prison learn to code

#31

Post by azernik »

GuiA wrote: post #6

> While the goal of Code 7370 is laudable, faced with competition from younger programmers, many of whom have handled computers since they were toddlers, will it make any meaningful difference for inmates? For now, it's too soon to tell. Of course it will make a meaningful difference for inmates (if only because in terms of all things one could do in jail, this is probably in the top 1% in terms of intellectual stimu…

I'd put it even more strongly. Even if programmers who have been at it since childhood have an advantage, I think the job prospects of a decent-but-not-great programmer are still at least on a par with other careers that inmates could be training for in jail. Just look at those same bootcamp programs you mentioned - their graduates may (or may not, actually, now that I look at the stats) have a lower employment rate than coders from a good university, but the job prospects are still by today's standards very good, and when they do get jobs they're still pulling down comfortably upper-middle-class incomes.

Convicted felons would probably find it harder to find a job just because they have to put that fact on their job applications, but they have to deal with that whatever line of work they go into.

Re: Inmates at California’s San Quentin prison learn to code

#32

Post by unclebucknasty »

GuiA wrote: post #6

> While the goal of Code 7370 is laudable, faced with competition from younger programmers, many of whom have handled computers since they were toddlers, will it make any meaningful difference for inmates? For now, it's too soon to tell. Of course it will make a meaningful difference for inmates (if only because in terms of all things one could do in jail, this is probably in the top 1% in terms of intellectual stimu…

That population is probably like any other: either programming concepts click for them or they don't.

I saw this in freshman year. People either struggled mightily, or nearly not at all. Hence, the huge weed-out factor for the major.

All these folks need is exposure.

Re: Inmates at California’s San Quentin prison learn to code

#33

Post by unclebucknasty »

shawndrost wrote: post #21

Hey yall -- I'm a cofounder at Hack Reactor, which wrote the curriculum and is running the program from an instruction and student success standpoint. This is my baby and it's exciting to see it getting some attention this week -- I think that prisons should be schools by default and I hope that public perception changes. AMA if you're curious.

>I think that prisons should be schools by default

Indeed. Good work you're doing there.

Now, if we can make schools schools by default, then maybe we can skip the prison step altogether.

Re: Inmates at California’s San Quentin prison learn to code

#34

Post by cgag »

shawndrost wrote: post #24
estsauver wrote: post #3

Does anyone here know the people who are working with code 7370? I'd love to help in some way. I don't know if they're looking for code reviews or tutoring, or what I could provide, but I'd love to be of help. It seems like providing the inmates access to something like http://kapeli.com/dash or mdn locally would be a godsend.

I'm a cofounder at Hack Reactor -- we build the cirriculum and are running the daily events. Please contact me (shawn@hackreactor.com) with your interest. We have local copies of MDN installed and are adding a dash equivalent over xmas. (Dash is osx only -- I forget the equivalent for linux, which is all the institution could afford.)

The free software version is Zeal (http://zealdocs.org/).

Re: Inmates at California’s San Quentin prison learn to code

#35

Post by derekp7 »

unclebucknasty wrote: post #32
GuiA wrote: post #6

> While the goal of Code 7370 is laudable, faced with competition from younger programmers, many of whom have handled computers since they were toddlers, will it make any meaningful difference for inmates? For now, it's too soon to tell. Of course it will make a meaningful difference for inmates (if only because in terms of all things one could do in jail, this is probably in the top 1% in terms of intellectual stimu…

That population is probably like any other: either programming concepts click for them or they don't. I saw this in freshman year. People either struggled mightily, or nearly not at all. Hence, the huge weed-out factor for the major. All these folks need is exposure.

It isn't so much of it clicking, it is the willingness to put through the effort until it does click. But that willingness comes easier for some people, since they are wired to enjoy it. Others don't enjoy the process of trying something, seeing it fail, trying again, repeat for several hours/days/weeks, then finally getting it to work. It's like some like tomatoes, others don't. If you don't, it is hard to be a food critic of tomato-based dishes.

Re: Inmates at California’s San Quentin prison learn to code

#36

Post by Iftheshoefits »

duaneb wrote: post #20
hardwaresofton wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are tons of college grads that either didn't study computer science at all, or studied computer science and didn't do very well (and don't like it enough to do it outside of school) that are getting high-paying jobs (relative to general populace) at lots of big tech companies. The tech industry fancies itself a meritocracy/progressive -- programs like this will show just how much of that perception is real.

> There are tons of college grads that either didn't study computer science at all, or studied computer science and didn't do very well (and don't like it enough to do it outside of school) that are getting high-paying jobs (relative to general populace) at lots of big tech companies. This also flips the other way: I've interviewed PhDs with little ability to operate in an engineering environment. The industry is def…

I've not seen any evidence that this industry is more or less meritocratic (in the positive sense meant here, that is, based on ability to perform programming tasks) than any other--including academia (whence I come, but from a science background, not CS/math).

On the other hand I've seen plenty of evidence that in certain geographic regions there is a particularly heavy (and, in my opinion, amusingly misplaced) emphasis on categorical errors, equivocation, and conflation of purely academic CS knowledge with practical ability (as you yourself allude to). These are all the CS-world equivalent of the supposedly very un-meritocratic things many who've never been outside of CS (professionally) assume occur in, oh, "banking, consulting, and [the] business world" as a matter of daily routine.

Re: Inmates at California’s San Quentin prison learn to code

#37

Post by cognivore »

unclebucknasty wrote: post #33
shawndrost wrote: post #21

Hey yall -- I'm a cofounder at Hack Reactor, which wrote the curriculum and is running the program from an instruction and student success standpoint. This is my baby and it's exciting to see it getting some attention this week -- I think that prisons should be schools by default and I hope that public perception changes. AMA if you're curious.

> I think that prisons should be schools by default Indeed. Good work you're doing there. Now, if we can make schools schools by default, then maybe we can skip the prison step altogether.

"Now, if we can make schools schools by default, then maybe we can skip the prison step altogether."

That's the best quote on HN I've read in a year.

Re: Inmates at California’s San Quentin prison learn to code

#38

Post by allannienhuis »

cgag wrote: post #34
shawndrost wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a cofounder at Hack Reactor -- we build the cirriculum and are running the daily events. Please contact me (shawn@hackreactor.com) with your interest. We have local copies of MDN installed and are adding a dash equivalent over xmas. (Dash is osx only -- I forget the equivalent for linux, which is all the institution could afford.)

The free software version is Zeal ( http://zealdocs.org/ ).

Another alternative: https://github.com/rgarcia/dochub is a node application that can be installed locally which serves up a pile of relevant web development documentation.

Online/demo version of the app here: http://dochub.io/ but that's not loading for me at the moment.

Re: Inmates at California’s San Quentin prison learn to code

#39

Post by rhc2104 »

rndmize wrote: post #11
estsauver wrote: post #3

Does anyone here know the people who are working with code 7370? I'd love to help in some way. I don't know if they're looking for code reviews or tutoring, or what I could provide, but I'd love to be of help. It seems like providing the inmates access to something like http://kapeli.com/dash or mdn locally would be a godsend.

I know some of the people that were working on the program. I think the easiest way to start helping out would be to attend one of the related meetups: http://www.meetup.com/hackreactorx/events/218681201/ (I believe there's a meetup like this once a month or so.)

It looks like they would like volunteers to help build the curriculum. Is this curriculum open source?

Re: Inmates at California’s San Quentin prison learn to code

#40

Post by rhc2104 »

GuiA wrote: post #6

> While the goal of Code 7370 is laudable, faced with competition from younger programmers, many of whom have handled computers since they were toddlers, will it make any meaningful difference for inmates? For now, it's too soon to tell. Of course it will make a meaningful difference for inmates (if only because in terms of all things one could do in jail, this is probably in the top 1% in terms of intellectual stimu…

Are there any coding bootcamps that are only a few weeks? 9 weeks seem to be the minimum, and the shorter classes demand more than 40/hours a week.

The curriculum is created by Hack Reactor, which is a 13 week, 66 hour/week curriculum. So the time commitment is the same, and it seems to go less in depth than the standard Hack Reactor program.

This is according to http://www.meetup.com/hackreactorx/events/218681201/ , where it says "Hack Reactor is TLM's primary partner in this endeavor, and will be creating the curriculum (basic front-end web developer skills, so a bit of a shift from HR's curriculum)"

That said, I am a big proponent to giving job training to those in prison, and am hopeful for the results!

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