Big Mayo Files Lawsuit Against Food-Tech Startup Hampton Creek • Hacker News Board

Re: Big Mayo Files Lawsuit Against Food-Tech Startup Hampton Creek

#31

Post by zzalpha » Mon, Nov 10, 2014, 8:41 PM UTC

entee wrote: post #13

whafro wrote: post #4

Mayonnaise is oil, egg yolks, and an acid (typically vinegar or lemon juice). If you don't have these things, it's not mayonnaise. It seems like it'd be pretty easy for them to call it "Vegan Mayo," where folks are assuming there's a major substitute for a core ingredient. "Just Mayo," on the other hand, seems to claim the opposite. It's still pretty whiny for Hellmann's/Best Foods/Unilever/Whomever to file the lawsu…

Neither are a lot of Hellmann’s products. Lots of their products are called "mayonnaise dressing" instead of "mayonnaise" probably because they don’t fit the criteria either. Do you care though? You probably never noticed, and just had a really nice sandwich. The standard is actually super specific: http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFRS... for example you have to have at least 65% by weight oil…

"You probably never noticed, and just had a really nice sandwich."

Speak for yourself. When I buy spread for my sandwiches, I buy mayonnaise, not some ill-defined "spread". I'm sure I'm not the only one.

The entire point of labeling regulations is to prevent exactly this kind of misleading branding.

To me the true irony is that when it's some massive conglomerate labeling "pink slime" as meat, folks cry foul and demand government action. But when it's a sweetheart little startup being all "green" and "sustainable" while using similarly deceptive labeling (well, save that "pink slime" is at least a meat product whereas "Just Mayo" isn't mayo by any traditional definition), suddenly it's okay because they're the "good guys".

Re: Big Mayo Files Lawsuit Against Food-Tech Startup Hampton Creek

#32

Post by verulito » Mon, Nov 10, 2014, 8:48 PM UTC

Shelf stable mayo is disgusting. Make it at home and compare. None of these companies should be able to call their product mayo. Sure they meet the technical definition of mayo, having at least the ingredients that whafro lists, but they also contain a bunch of other crap that significantly alters the texture and flavor. Just Mayo does seem to be even further from real mayo than most of the competition.

I don't see what the big hubub is about. Hellman can pursue all three strategies to win at the same time. Innovate, market, AND sue! Not to defend the system but it's the one we have and I don't blame them for taking advantage of it.

Re: Big Mayo Files Lawsuit Against Food-Tech Startup Hampton Creek

#33

Post by kstenerud » Mon, Nov 10, 2014, 10:40 PM UTC

waterlesscloud wrote: post #25

bryanlarsen wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me, that logo looks like a perfect logo for real mayonnaise: it contains the two main ingredients: an egg + a plant representing the oil.

That label is definitely misleading, and probably intentionally so. Seriously, it features an egg, which it doesn't have.

I doubt it was intentionally so. Everything seems painfully obvious in hindsight.

Re: Big Mayo Files Lawsuit Against Food-Tech Startup Hampton Creek

#34

Post by undersuit » Mon, Nov 10, 2014, 10:55 PM UTC

The Pot calling the kettle black.

Traditional Mayonnaise used olive oil, most companies use soybean oil now for it's preservative properties and low price. I can't buy a 100% olive oil mayo, but Hellman's gets to cry about eggs?

Re: Big Mayo Files Lawsuit Against Food-Tech Startup Hampton Creek

#35

Post by undersuit » Mon, Nov 10, 2014, 11:03 PM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #9

entee wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the point is not whether it fits the current standard but whether those standards make sense in an age of innovation. I think consumers are smart enough to figure out whether or not the product they bought is mayonnaise. If it tastes like mayo, works like mayonnaise, smells like mayonnaise, is it not mayonnaise? Who cares if it has eggs, and why are the Feds getting involved anyway?

> I think the point is not whether it fits the current standard but whether those standards make sense in an age of innovation. How does an "age of innovation" benefit from inaccurate product labeling. Its not like mayonnaise-substitutes that vary from the defining ingredients are new -- usually with branding that is evocative of mayonnaise without claiming to be mayonnaise, clearly indicating that it is: (1) somethi…

Just Mayo

>INGREDIENTS: Non-GMO Expeller Pressed Canola Oil, Filtered Water, Lemon Juice, White Vinegar, 2% or less of the following: Organic Sugar, Salt, Pea Protein, Spices, Modified Food Starch, Beta-Carotene.*

Hellman's Mayonnaise

>SOYBEAN OIL, WATER, WHOLE EGGS AND EGG YOLKS, VINEGAR, SALT, SUGAR, LEMON JUICE, CALCIUM DISODIUM EDTA (USED TO PROTECT QUALITY), NATURAL FLAVORS. GLUTEN-FREE.

I don't see any misleading labeling here.

Re: Big Mayo Files Lawsuit Against Food-Tech Startup Hampton Creek

#36

Post by robgibbons » Tue, Nov 11, 2014, 1:00 AM UTC

Rename it to Almost Mayo, and they've got no problems!

Re: Big Mayo Files Lawsuit Against Food-Tech Startup Hampton Creek

#37

Post by Turing_Machine » Wed, Nov 12, 2014, 1:25 AM UTC

batbomb wrote: post #18

whafro wrote: post #4

Mayonnaise is oil, egg yolks, and an acid (typically vinegar or lemon juice). If you don't have these things, it's not mayonnaise. It seems like it'd be pretty easy for them to call it "Vegan Mayo," where folks are assuming there's a major substitute for a core ingredient. "Just Mayo," on the other hand, seems to claim the opposite. It's still pretty whiny for Hellmann's/Best Foods/Unilever/Whomever to file the lawsu…

Technically speaking, mayonnaise is oil, an lecithin based emulsifier derived from egg yolks, and an acid (which may be vinegar, or mustard, or something else). If you get a vegan emulsifier to work as good or better than eggs, then go ahead and call it the generic, unprotected "mayo"- because that's what it is, and that's how it will be used. This blog post/article is a bit hyperbolic with the whole the dirty egg in…

I disagree.

A hamburger is beef. People often call them "burgers" for short.

Vegan substitutes exist, but they are called "veggieburgers", "gardenburgers", or similar, not "burgers".

If you try to sell gardenburgers as "burgers", you're being misleading, and you're likely to run afoul of the law.

Re: Big Mayo Files Lawsuit Against Food-Tech Startup Hampton Creek

#38

Post by Turing_Machine » Wed, Nov 12, 2014, 1:28 AM UTC

entee wrote: post #23

ginko wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I buy something that has mayonnaise on it then I'm expecting _mayonnaise_.

Fair enough, but if you buy a lot of the mayo products in the condiments aisle, the FDA doesn't think you're getting it. Check it out next time you're in the supermarket, lots of things are dressing and not mayonnaise, but I'll bet you never noticed or cared. I live with someone who's vegan so I've been paying a lot of attention to labels lately. I feel like this is sort of the Turing test of food, given two jars, on…

Yes, there are "salad dressings", "sandwich spreads", and the like in the condiment aisle.

No, they're not called "mayo".

Note that Hellman's/Best Foods biggest competitor, Kraft, makes both a mayonnaise ("Kraft Mayo") and a salad dressing ("Miracle Whip").

Re: Big Mayo Files Lawsuit Against Food-Tech Startup Hampton Creek

#39

Post by Turing_Machine » Wed, Nov 12, 2014, 1:31 AM UTC

bryanlarsen wrote: post #5

Miracle Whip manages to sell in huge quantities without calling themselves "Mayo". If Miracle Whip can do it, so can Hampton Creek.

Exactly.

I noted above that Kraft also makes a real mayonnaise, which they call "Kraft Mayo".

I'm surprised they're not right in there with Unilever complaining about this.