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China suspected of breaching U.S. Postal Service computer networks

washingtonpost.com

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Re: China suspected of breaching U.S. Postal Service computer networks

#31

Post by hackuser »

jamesli wrote: post #18

It was USSR before. It has been China since 1990's. An imaginary and powerful enemy has to be created. Iraq, Iran, Afganistan are too small for the title.

> It was USSR before. It has been China since 1990's. An imaginary and powerful enemy has to be created.

I agree that espionage is over-emphasized -- everyone does it. Also I agree that some like to imagine enemies; it fits their narratives. That doesn't make every enemy imaginary.

The USSR was a real enemy. Many Chinese leaders openly proclaim themselves our enemy and they take aggressive actions against us; among the public, aggressive nationalism is at least somewhat popular. Hopefully the relationship doesn't turn out that way, but it's a real risk that I don't think we should ignore.

Re: China suspected of breaching U.S. Postal Service computer networks

#33

Post by diminoten »

mike_hearn wrote: post #16

Still, “it’s perfectly appropriate for us to do everything we can to embarrass and punish the Chinese if they’re in our systems, whether or not we’re in theirs,” said former National Security Agency general counsel Stewart A. Baker. “It’s the case that the U.S. and Russia and other countries are much more cautious about getting caught because they think there are going to be consequences. It’s only the Chinese that t…

The US doesn't engage in economic espionage, and then turn around and give/sell intellectual property to US companies.

Re: China suspected of breaching U.S. Postal Service computer networks

#34

Post by legohead »

semenko wrote: post #2

They buried the lede a bit -- since I doubt organized attackers are after the personal information of postal service employees: "It is also possible that the Chinese were after other types of data, analysts said. For instance, the U.S. Postal Service, at the request of law enforcement officials, takes pictures of all addressing information from envelopes and parcels.​" http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/04/us/monitoring-…

I worked for USPS. When I saw this title I immediately assumed that China was after the main database which contains information on basically every US citizen. As a developer I had access to some databases and was told that USPS had the third largest database in the world. This was before Facebook, but still, there is a lot to be had other than employee information.

Re: China suspected of breaching U.S. Postal Service computer networks

#35

Post by drderidder »

diminoten wrote: post #33
mike_hearn wrote: post #16

Still, “it’s perfectly appropriate for us to do everything we can to embarrass and punish the Chinese if they’re in our systems, whether or not we’re in theirs,” said former National Security Agency general counsel Stewart A. Baker. “It’s the case that the U.S. and Russia and other countries are much more cautious about getting caught because they think there are going to be consequences. It’s only the Chinese that t…

The US doesn't engage in economic espionage, and then turn around and give/sell intellectual property to US companies.

In fact their pals at CSEC were found to be doing exactly that. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/brazil-spying-repo...

Re: China suspected of breaching U.S. Postal Service computer networks

#36

Post by jrochkind1 »

mike_hearn wrote: post #16

Still, “it’s perfectly appropriate for us to do everything we can to embarrass and punish the Chinese if they’re in our systems, whether or not we’re in theirs,” said former National Security Agency general counsel Stewart A. Baker. “It’s the case that the U.S. and Russia and other countries are much more cautious about getting caught because they think there are going to be consequences. It’s only the Chinese that t…

Cause at this point everyone knows the US is trying to get into _everyone's_ systems, so it probably sounded hypocritical to himself for him to say it's a big deal when China does it. He's got to come up with something.

It's too late for "gentlemen do not read each other's mail".

Re: China suspected of breaching U.S. Postal Service computer networks

#37

Post by jrochkind1 »

diminoten wrote: post #33
mike_hearn wrote: post #16

Still, “it’s perfectly appropriate for us to do everything we can to embarrass and punish the Chinese if they’re in our systems, whether or not we’re in theirs,” said former National Security Agency general counsel Stewart A. Baker. “It’s the case that the U.S. and Russia and other countries are much more cautious about getting caught because they think there are going to be consequences. It’s only the Chinese that t…

The US doesn't engage in economic espionage, and then turn around and give/sell intellectual property to US companies.

How are you sure of this? I wouldn't be.

And you're saying it's somehow a different class of ethical conundrum to engage in espionage to kill people, or to engage in it for economic advantage, and killing people is more ethical?

I am not surprised the state-capitalist Chinese see it differently, and are okay with both.

Re: China suspected of breaching U.S. Postal Service computer networks

#38

Post by diminoten »

drderidder wrote: post #35
diminoten wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US doesn't engage in economic espionage, and then turn around and give/sell intellectual property to US companies.

In fact their pals at CSEC were found to be doing exactly that. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/brazil-spying-repo...

Which private US company received this information in an attempt to boost that company's economic power?

I can't find that information in the article.

Re: China suspected of breaching U.S. Postal Service computer networks

#39

Post by diminoten »

jrochkind1 wrote: post #37
diminoten wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US doesn't engage in economic espionage, and then turn around and give/sell intellectual property to US companies.

How are you sure of this? I wouldn't be. And you're saying it's somehow a different class of ethical conundrum to engage in espionage to kill people, or to engage in it for economic advantage, and killing people is more ethical? I am not surprised the state-capitalist Chinese see it differently, and are okay with both.

I'm about as sure of this as I am of unicorns not existing.

As to the ethical dilemma, I'm only noting a difference.

Re: China suspected of breaching U.S. Postal Service computer networks

#40

Post by delbel »

legohead wrote: post #34
semenko wrote: post #2

They buried the lede a bit -- since I doubt organized attackers are after the personal information of postal service employees: "It is also possible that the Chinese were after other types of data, analysts said. For instance, the U.S. Postal Service, at the request of law enforcement officials, takes pictures of all addressing information from envelopes and parcels.​" http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/04/us/monitoring-…

I worked for USPS. When I saw this title I immediately assumed that China was after the main database which contains information on basically every US citizen. As a developer I had access to some databases and was told that USPS had the third largest database in the world. This was before Facebook, but still, there is a lot to be had other than employee information.

Is there anyway to opt-out of that database?
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