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Reverse OCR

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31–40 of 92 posts

Re: Reverse OCR

#31
post #5

Perhaps this could lead to a new kind of captcha that only bots can solve. I doubt it would be efficient, though.

If this bot can generate scribbles from words. Theoretically, couldn't this bot work to teach an OCR-bot to effectively recognize scribbles as letters?

Re: Reverse OCR

#32
post #12

What (if anything) is this saying about the quality of the OCR process? Especially since none of these seem human readable.

I'm not bothered by it any more than I'm bothered by our brains' propensity for seeing faces where there aren't any.

Re: Reverse OCR

#33
A generative model, although computationally expensive, would not suffer this problem. Essentially a generative model can run in reverse, which means that if you feed values into the output you get inputs that could explain the output. Check out "Boltzmann Machines" for an example. There are plenty of examples for the MNIST dataset of hand written digits.

Re: Reverse OCR

#34
post #24
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but that just seems like reinventing crypto with a large key, and requires you to implement a counterparty-provided algorithm, which could be malicious.

The point of steganoraphy is that no realizes there's a message.

And? It still has key sizes, the enemy still knows the system.

Re: Reverse OCR

#35
post #27

This is similar to the project where images of clouds were fed to face recognition software: http://ssbkyh.com/works/cloud_face/

there's also http://iobound.com/pareidoloop/, a project that uses a genetic algorithm for breeding (random) polygons into a shape with a face detection algorithm as the fitness function.

Re: Reverse OCR

#37

Not strictly related, but reminded me of the exercise in genetic programming by Roger Alsing: http://rogeralsing.com/2008/12/07/genetic-programming-evolut... It's a rather cool attempt to draw the Mona Lisa using random, semi-transparent polygons

I did this recently, the results were surprisingly good! https://github.com/darkFunction/PolygonPainter

Edit: Roger Alsing's implementation was a single entity population (mutated then reverted if the mutation was no good). I copied this approach in my first implementation, but found that much better results could be achieved with a breeding population of genes.

Re: Reverse OCR

#38
post #34
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point of steganoraphy is that no realizes there's a message.

And? It still has key sizes, the enemy still knows the system.

Steganography is solidly a "security through obscurity" thing. Sure, we comp-sci people don't care about that, but spies do.

There was that Russian Spy who was transmitting data for years on her Facebook account through steganography pictures on her Facebook account.

http://www.technologyreview.com/view/419833/russian-spies-us...

The FBI didn't know about it until after she was caught. So believe it or not, Steganography _works_. If you're trying to hide the fact that you're a spy, encrypting all of your messages over TOR is a bad idea.

On the other hand, if you pretend to be a normal person and embed secret messages in your Facebook posts, you can be a spy for years and not get caught.

Re: Reverse OCR

#39
post #34
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point of steganoraphy is that no realizes there's a message.

And? It still has key sizes, the enemy still knows the system.

Disclaimer: [1]

From what I understand, ideally stego would be used in conjunction with encryption.

First, you would encrypt your message, then you would use stego to hide it.

If the stego is good, it would be a computationally intractable problem[2] for your adversary to determine whether there was indeed a message hidden within the data they were analyzing, with greater than 50% accuracy.

That said, I'm not sure how practical using an application like this would be for stego. It does not "whiten" the data it tries to hide, so unless the data's already whitened, it could potentially stand out like a sore thumb when subjected to steganalysis. And how would you propose actually using this?

This does present some intriguing possibilities, however, like maybe having Alice and Bob share a tweaked version of an OCR library and having Alice generate random images until her encrypted message has been "encoded" in such a way as to be recognizable by the tweaked OCR library that she shares with Bob. The tweaking of the library's character recognition parameters could be a sort of pre-shared key, and would not be available to Eve (the adversary).

[1] - this post comes from a hobbyist, not from any kind of security researcher, steganalyst, cryptoanalyst, etc. So please take what I say with a grain of salt and please correct me if I'm wrong.

[2] - "computationally intractable" being different for different adversaries, of course, which is one reason you need a good threat model.

Re: Reverse OCR

#40
post #23
post #3

This could be a cool way to visually "encrypt" messages. They're readable, but only by the correct tool. I wonder how these squiggles might be creatively arranged steganographicly in an image and still be "read" by the OCR tool.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but that just seems like reinventing crypto with a large key, and requires you to implement a counterparty-provided algorithm, which could be malicious.

Believe it or not, there's still a lot of utility in putting encrypted messages on physical things (pieces of paper). One time pads work well for this, but imagine if the recognition algorithm was altered in different ways effectively acting as a key s.t. you had to have a similarly altered recognized on your side to see it. Yeah it's symmetric crypto in that sense but you can physically hide all kinds of stuff or divide up the message between different couriers or do other stuff in ways that are a bit unlike digital crypto. The simple fact of a message being the physical object might be enough to confuse an eavesdropper.

Or the message itself could also be encrypted with a more secure system, but then physically presented in an open area so that somebody with a tuned recognizer can get the encrypted data to later decrypt digitally.

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