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On the phenomenon of bullshit jobs

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Re: On the phenomenon of bullshit jobs

#31

Post by ishener »

binarymax wrote: post #28

I just had a great trip to a cousins wedding and saw a lot of family. My Parents' generation are now just past the 'age of retirement' and are in their late 60s and early 70s. The majority of them are still working in their bullshit jobs. I asked several if they were going to retire soon and they all replied the same. If they retire what would they do? Even though their work is mostly pointless from a job function pe…

I think the problem is not that there is nothing better to do, is that there is no one to oversee you when you are doing your hobby

Re: On the phenomenon of bullshit jobs

#32

Post by vanderZwan »

tmylk wrote: post #9

Graeber's idea on the solution to the problem: "revolt of the caring classes" instead of mass dropout is even more interesting in this interview. http://www.salon.com/2014/06/01/help_us_thomas_piketty_the_1... To put it in a naive tech twist - maybe there should be an online tool that allows me to distribute a proportion of my wages to a list of "people who care for me and things I care about". Basically, can I creat…

Off-topic: I've seen that link a few times, and have yet to figure out why it reads "help us thomas piketty the 1s sick and twisted new scheme"

Re: On the phenomenon of bullshit jobs

#33

Post by confluence »

dirktheman wrote: post #27
confluence wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That answer is complete bullshit. > In the United States, socialism is virtually nonexistent. Except for Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security and Unemployment. And don't forget the military.

By that definition the whole of Western Europe would be a socialist state. Government services like these do not equal socialism. I live in The Netherlands, a pretty liberal kingdom with excellent social security and unemployment benefits. But don't be mistaken, it's not a socialist country. Not by a long shot. The biggest political parties are liberal-conservative and social-democrats. The latter lean towards the le…

> Government services like these do not equal socialism.

Well, they definitely aren't capitalist.

Re: On the phenomenon of bullshit jobs

#34

Post by ludoo »

spindritf wrote: post #14

How is this weak political agitation on top of HN? It reads like a paroody. You’re an anthropology professor, what’s the ‘need’ for that?” (And indeed a lot of tabloid readers would take the existence of my job as the very definition of wasteful social expenditure.) Yes, yes, if you disagree with our good professor here then you must be a tabloid-reading simpleton. A person of any sophistication would easily recogniz…

Actually, he's a well known anthropologist and author of an excellent book, which you should maybe read before labelling him as a political agitator...[1]

[1] and given it's freely available, it won't cost you anything... http://www.unwelcomeguests.net/Debt,_The_First_5000_Years

Re: On the phenomenon of bullshit jobs

#35

Post by jcfrei »

The author himself notices half way through the text that he might have gone out on a limb. If his description of "bullshit jobs" was at least followed by some statistics on marginal valued added (to a product, service) by that particular job (and how this margin has become lower and lower) then we could start a serious discussion about it. But now his extraordinary claims just stand there as a shallow rant, more like a romantic anecdote to Victorian economics than a fundamental analysis of capitalism.

Re: On the phenomenon of bullshit jobs

#37

Post by tomp »

binarymax wrote: post #28

I just had a great trip to a cousins wedding and saw a lot of family. My Parents' generation are now just past the 'age of retirement' and are in their late 60s and early 70s. The majority of them are still working in their bullshit jobs. I asked several if they were going to retire soon and they all replied the same. If they retire what would they do? Even though their work is mostly pointless from a job function pe…

I can't help but pity people who say "there is nothing better to do" (but then again, maybe that's because I'm employed, working 10 hours a day).

We live at a time when "I have nothing to do" is a really bullshit excuse. You have the whole internet available!

- learn languages (e.g. Portuguese, Russian, Chinese, Japanese, Arabic, Spanish - to cover most of the world's population)

- learn new stuff (statistics/machine learning, quantum mechanics, chemistry/biology, philosophy, programming, ...)

- do crowd-funded science (https://www.zooniverse.org/)

- help with open source projects (they need both programmers and non-programmers)

- teach people English (or any other language you know)

- entertain yourself (chat, watch movies, read books, play games)

Even for older generations, who might not be so comfortable with technology, there are plenty of useful things they can do in the real world.

- mentor kids

- tidy up parks and other public spaces

- participate in or organize hackatons/hardware hackatons/makerspaces

- experiment with learning/science/research in your home (make a spice garden, grow plants using hydroponics, prototype using 3D printing, redecorate your home with cheap materials)

- hang out with lonely (often elderly) people

- (learn to) cook

- work out (bodyweight exercises - you'll live longer)

I seriously cannot imagine ever being bored with nothing useful to do (except when I get home after work, I'm tired and I only have an hour or two of free time, so there's not much time to start anything meaningful - but even so, I spend a lot of time programming my personal projects).

Re: On the phenomenon of bullshit jobs

#38

Post by icebraining »

Dewie wrote: post #19
facepalm wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems so completely misguided. Why is it the government's responsibility to fix your vacation for you? Isn't it just a matter of earning enough money to afford a vacation? I doubt rich people worry as much about little vacation time - they buy those expensive yachts and then have only two weeks per year to ride them? And even supposing there simply aren't enough jobs for everyone, and if you go on vacation someb…

> Why is it the government's responsibility to fix your vacation for you? Yeah, I guess something like unions could work for that. Oh wait, apparently those are bad, too. Well I guess "just earn enough money" is the best fallback.

Yeah, I guess something like unions could work for that. Oh wait, apparently those are bad, too.

Be careful about stereotyping; not everyone who dislikes the involvement of the State is against unions - as long as they're not enforced by law, but voluntary.

An extreme example would be an anarcho-syndicalist, but there are libertarians who support unions as well.

Re: On the phenomenon of bullshit jobs

#39

Post by agumonkey »

ishener wrote: post #31
binarymax wrote: post #28

I just had a great trip to a cousins wedding and saw a lot of family. My Parents' generation are now just past the 'age of retirement' and are in their late 60s and early 70s. The majority of them are still working in their bullshit jobs. I asked several if they were going to retire soon and they all replied the same. If they retire what would they do? Even though their work is mostly pointless from a job function pe…

I think the problem is not that there is nothing better to do, is that there is no one to oversee you when you are doing your hobby

The psychological roots of work are interesting.

Re: On the phenomenon of bullshit jobs

#40

Post by ilamont »

Reading this, I was reminded of the "B Ark" from Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy: (1)

The B Ark is technically named "Golgafrincham Ark Fleet, Ship B". The Golgafrincham civilization hatched a plan to eliminate its society of its most useless workers, namely its service sector and its paper shufflers. The Golgafrinchans created a legend that their world was about to be destroyed and they needed to build three arks. In Ark A they would put all the high achievers, the scientists, thinkers, artists, and important leaders. In Ark C they would put all the blue-collar workers, the people that build and make things. In Ark B they would put everyone else: hairdressers, TV producers, insurance salesmen, personnel officers, security guards, public relations executives, and management consultants.

The B Ark was constructed, loaded up, and launched first. However, it was automatically set for a collision course with Earth's sun, to finally rid Golgafrincham of these twits. And naturally, no A or C ark was ever made.

The presence of useless B Ark people in company settings has generated a lot of thought, including this person (2) who suggests dealing with them by "hiring another “B” Ark person to have meetings with them. Demand that accurate minutes are kept and that they should meet at least twice day until the problem is resolved" and engaging them in a useless, circular project.

1. http://everything2.com/title/B+Ark

2. http://infinite-shades.com/2011/02/14/golgafrincham-b-ark-wh...

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