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Low Light and High Dynamic Range photography in the Google Camera App

googleresearch.blogspot.com

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Re: Low Light and High Dynamic Range photography in the Google Camera App

#31

Post by personZ »

heliodor wrote: post #18
thrownaway2424 wrote: post #9

Meh. The camera software on Android is so bad that a default-setting picture from an iPhone looks as good or better than an HDR picture on Android. People have demonstrated the quality you can get from the sensor on a Nexus 5 if you capture raw and process offline[1]. I realize that these Google[x] researchers are probably not responsible for the mainline camera application, but the organizational details of Android…

I have a Nexus 5 at the moment and while the pictures are not amazing, what boggles my mind is that the camera sensor and the phone's screen don't have the same aspect ratio!

Worth noting that this is the case across most compact camera devices. Most smartphone camera sensors are 4:3 (e.g. iPhones), while the screen on the device is often 16:9 or 16:10. In contrast full-sized SLRs are usually 3:2 owing to the 35mm legacy.

Re: Low Light and High Dynamic Range photography in the Google Camera App

#32

Post by adrusi »

FreakyT wrote: post #26

It's unfortunate that HDR mode in Google Camera remains unavailable for phones other than the Nexus 5 & 6 -- I have a Moto X, and the app is really only useful for photospheres, since normal photos tend look awful without HDR. Has Google discussed any technical reason for this restriction? Seems like lots of third party apps support HDR on a wider variety of phones...

Google's HDR+ is different from regular HDR, which can be acheived through burst exposure bracketing and computation alone. HDR+ also performs stabilization and other tricks to improve the result, and these operations might depend on additional hints from the hardware to acheive the desired accuracy. OEMs are free to implement such features in their own apps, specialized to their own hardware, and most in fact do.

Re: Low Light and High Dynamic Range photography in the Google Camera App

#33

Post by ChuckMcM »

Seems like two people come into this experience and walk away with completely different expectations. One group are people, for whom camera phones have been their only "camera" and they are amazed at how great the pictures are now. The other group are people who argue the details of a phase detection autofocus in the Canon DSLR and the 51 point field autofocus of the Nikon DSLR and can't believe that the handset makers are allowed to actually call these things 'cameras' in their advertisements. Very little input from the folks in the middle.

Re: Low Light and High Dynamic Range photography in the Google Camera App

#34

Post by adrusi »

personZ wrote: post #16
thrownaway2424 wrote: post #9

Meh. The camera software on Android is so bad that a default-setting picture from an iPhone looks as good or better than an HDR picture on Android. People have demonstrated the quality you can get from the sensor on a Nexus 5 if you capture raw and process offline[1]. I realize that these Google[x] researchers are probably not responsible for the mainline camera application, but the organizational details of Android…

What a dismissive bunch of prattle. Meh. This is about algorithms to achieve better results with a given sensor. The Nexus 5, like the various Nexii that came before, has a poor image sensor -- it's a $300 smartphone, and LG wasn't going to put the best in it. HDR+ gives rather decent results in a wide range of settings despite that, and mine has managed a large number of fantastic shots. The Nexus 6, being twice the…

I'm hoping the 6's optical image stabilization will help make HDR+ even better.

Re: Low Light and High Dynamic Range photography in the Google Camera App

#35

Post by dingaling »

personZ wrote: post #29
thrownaway2424 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Nexus 5 has a really excellent Sony camera module with 1.4 micron pixels. It's comparable to bordering on identical to the sensor in the iPhone 5s, which produces far better images.

They are entirely different sensors, and share nothing at all in common. To start, the Nexus 5 has a 1/3.2" sensor, while the 5s has a 1/3.0" sensor (making evident from the start that in no universe are they "bordering on identical"). The iPhone has a f2.2 lens assembly. The Nexus has a f2.5 lens assembly. Empirically in both of those cases the iPhone has the superior option, not even getting into the specifics of t…

> They are entirely different sensors, and share nothing at all in common.

I wouldn't say that. The 5s uses the IMX145 and the Nexus 5 uses the IMX179. Both are Sony CMOS arrays.

The 1/3.0 size of the 5s array does enable larger individual photon 'buckets' for better light sensitivity but they're both closely related in terms of contemporary Sony technology.

The faster 5s lens is a key differentiator, I agree. But it is rather outclassed by the the Galaxy S5 and the Xperia Z2 / Z3. No serious Android-using photographer looks much beyond those for a smartphone.

Re: Low Light and High Dynamic Range photography in the Google Camera App

#36

Post by thrownaway2424 »

personZ wrote: post #29
thrownaway2424 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Nexus 5 has a really excellent Sony camera module with 1.4 micron pixels. It's comparable to bordering on identical to the sensor in the iPhone 5s, which produces far better images.

They are entirely different sensors, and share nothing at all in common. To start, the Nexus 5 has a 1/3.2" sensor, while the 5s has a 1/3.0" sensor (making evident from the start that in no universe are they "bordering on identical"). The iPhone has a f2.2 lens assembly. The Nexus has a f2.5 lens assembly. Empirically in both of those cases the iPhone has the superior option, not even getting into the specifics of t…

You're right, I meant the 5, not the 5s. No reason to get so upset.

Re: Low Light and High Dynamic Range photography in the Google Camera App

#37

Post by thrownaway2424 »

adrusi wrote: post #34
personZ wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a dismissive bunch of prattle. Meh. This is about algorithms to achieve better results with a given sensor. The Nexus 5, like the various Nexii that came before, has a poor image sensor -- it's a $300 smartphone, and LG wasn't going to put the best in it. HDR+ gives rather decent results in a wide range of settings despite that, and mine has managed a large number of fantastic shots. The Nexus 6, being twice the…

I'm hoping the 6's optical image stabilization will help make HDR+ even better.

The 5 already has OIS. Is the 6 supposed to be better?

Re: Low Light and High Dynamic Range photography in the Google Camera App

#38

Post by post_break »

magicalist wrote: post #21
piyush_soni wrote: post #14

The blogspot fails to discuss why Samsung Galaxy S4/S5 HDR results are much better than my Nexus 5's. Also, there are limitations in leaving it on. Besides it being slow, it also has other restrictions like the inability to use Flash while in HDR+ mode. Howsoever good it may be by default, flash is sometimes important not only in dark, but also when facing sunlight while taking the shot.

> The blogspot fails to discuss why Samsung Galaxy S4/S5 HDR results are much better than my Nexus 5's Well, $300 price difference can buy you a lot. Now I get it. Comments like this one must be why Google felt pressured into making the next Nexus phone so much more expensive :P

Galaxy S4 on stock rom photos look amazing. S4 on Google rom photos look like shit. It's in the software.

Re: Low Light and High Dynamic Range photography in the Google Camera App

#39

Post by thrownaway2424 »

heliodor wrote: post #18
thrownaway2424 wrote: post #9

Meh. The camera software on Android is so bad that a default-setting picture from an iPhone looks as good or better than an HDR picture on Android. People have demonstrated the quality you can get from the sensor on a Nexus 5 if you capture raw and process offline[1]. I realize that these Google[x] researchers are probably not responsible for the mainline camera application, but the organizational details of Android…

I have a Nexus 5 at the moment and while the pictures are not amazing, what boggles my mind is that the camera sensor and the phone's screen don't have the same aspect ratio!

You can just crop it if it bothers you. The lenses throw a circle of light, so the farther the aspect ratio gets from 1:1 the more lens you are wasting. What surprised me was the new Blackberry has a square (1:1) screen but doesn't capitalize on it with a 1:1 camera sensor. Probably they couldn't source a decent sensor with that aspect ratio.

Re: Low Light and High Dynamic Range photography in the Google Camera App

#40

Post by personZ »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #33

Seems like two people come into this experience and walk away with completely different expectations. One group are people, for whom camera phones have been their only "camera" and they are amazed at how great the pictures are now. The other group are people who argue the details of a phase detection autofocus in the Canon DSLR and the 51 point field autofocus of the Nikon DSLR and can't believe that the handset make…

The Galaxy S5 and iPhone 6 both feature on sensor phase detection. Further it's worth nothing that the whole notion of "n points of autofocus" is a flaw of phase detection, not a feature -- contrast detection has millions of possible points of autofocus. And indeed, most high-end SLRs have contrast-detection modes (e.g. Canon LiveView) that brings benefits that often merit its regular use, and are mandated for things like video mode.

I think you're presenting some sort of knowledge gap that is contrived. I used SLRs for years. I seldom use it anymore because the results of my smartphone, under many normal circumstances, are comparable. This is the case for many people. The camera you have and all of that, and they just keep getting better and better.

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