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A Natural A/B Test of Harassment

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Re: A Natural A/B Test of Harassment

#31

Post by defen »

htns wrote: post #26
mesozoic wrote: post #14

Gamergate is leaking again.

Yeah, I've heard about Gamergate in a couple of wildly different contexts. What's the deal with it?

The extreme nutshell version is that a female indie game developer supposedly slept with a male video game journalist, and this supposedly let to favorable coverage for her game that would not have happened otherwise.

The surface phenomenon is that a lot of people united under the banner of #gamergate to protest this breach of journalistic ethics. The dark side is that it seems like it's really just a bunch of people who want to see someone's life ruined, and they are wildly overreacting.

I think the underlying phenomenon is similar to what happened to Brendan Eich, even though the ostensible cause and the people involved are completely different.

Re: A Natural A/B Test of Harassment

#32

Post by imaginenore »

girvo wrote: post #17
imaginenore wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every? Really?

Frighteningly close for anyone who has more than 301 views. I'm not one for hyperbole, but it really is quite amazing how consistent it is.

I don't believe you. Let's take a random sample of videos and see how "every" it is.

Re: A Natural A/B Test of Harassment

#33

Post by andrewvc »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #30
andrewvc wrote: post #28

What I urge people in this thread to do is not to pick up a google search, or read a book, but to just go out and ask a few female friends what their thoughts are about being online, being safe, and being respected, and to listen with an open mind. I see a lot of denial in here, people rooting around for reasons to think that there isn't a serious fucking problem with intimidation and psychological violence taking pl…

According to the article, the author received one unwanted message every 50 days. How is it "cognitive dissonance" or "denial" to describe pressing delete every 50 days as a minor problem? Note that in a typical 2 week period, I probably get more than 36 recruiter spams. Could you concretely explain what you feel is being denied?

So you're seriously equating getting an unwanted job offer with a threat of sexual violence? What?

Re: A Natural A/B Test of Harassment

#35

Post by ijk »

htns wrote: post #26
mesozoic wrote: post #14

Gamergate is leaking again.

Yeah, I've heard about Gamergate in a couple of wildly different contexts. What's the deal with it?

An article:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-intersect/wp/2014/10/...

A video (Folding Ideas S4E7):

http://blip.tv/foldablehuman/s4e7-gamergate-7071206

Re: A Natural A/B Test of Harassment

#36

Post by krschultz »

hug wrote: post #29
andrewvc wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right, you didn't 'quote' them. You merely summarized the articles inaccurately in order to make a point. I think that's actually far worse. It seems that you're intent on quibbling semantics, selectively reading the data you've presented. For instance, even though I actually quantified that online threats are more tangible to women (from a study you actually linked to), by pointing to the far higher rates of…

There are six categories of harassment, all of which are online. In three of them, men are higher by a small margin. In two of them, women are ahead by a significant margin, and in one ahead by a small margin. So yes, by and large, women are more harassed online. I never said otherwise. What I said is that, based on my experience, women (while they are over-represented) are not as over-represented when it comes to ha…

common perception seems to be that women face a level of harassment hugely disproportionate to that experienced by men, however studies don't show such a large gap

#1) The study shows that 4x as many women than man have been stalked. It also shows that 2x as many women have experienced sexual harassment compared to men.

#2) This data shows % of people that have ever been harassed. It doesn't quantify the amount of harassment per person. It's a reasonable to think that not only are more women harassed, each one is likely harassed more intensely.

This is not a small problem.

Re: A Natural A/B Test of Harassment

#37

Post by waterlesscloud »

andrewvc wrote: post #25
hug wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't actually quoted anything, so I find it hard to believe I've selectively quoted. :) I think, in fact, you'll find that I didn't say that there was no difference, just that the differences weren't as large as I've seen claimed in various online discussions. I also made very sure to make sure that I pointed out the second study was both unscientific and poorly calibrated. The fact that you noticed that there w…

You're right, you didn't 'quote' them. You merely summarized the articles inaccurately in order to make a point. I think that's actually far worse. It seems that you're intent on quibbling semantics, selectively reading the data you've presented. For instance, even though I actually quantified that online threats are more tangible to women (from a study you actually linked to), by pointing to the far higher rates of…

While you're making some good points, that stat about online stalking raises a lot of questions.

The idea of online stalking covers a big range of activities, from the harmless (googling an ex) to the very invasive (threatening someone at many sites and IDs online), and the survey question makes no effort to distinguish them.

Re: A Natural A/B Test of Harassment

#38

Post by yummyfajitas »

andrewvc wrote: post #33
yummyfajitas wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to the article, the author received one unwanted message every 50 days. How is it "cognitive dissonance" or "denial" to describe pressing delete every 50 days as a minor problem? Note that in a typical 2 week period, I probably get more than 36 recruiter spams. Could you concretely explain what you feel is being denied?

So you're seriously equating getting an unwanted job offer with a threat of sexual violence? What?

In either case i lose 1-3 seconds of my day pressing delete (note that I have received threats of sexual violence, and delete worked on them too). So yes.

If you feel differently I'd be curious to hear why.

Re: A Natural A/B Test of Harassment

#40

Post by JulianMorrison »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #30
andrewvc wrote: post #28

What I urge people in this thread to do is not to pick up a google search, or read a book, but to just go out and ask a few female friends what their thoughts are about being online, being safe, and being respected, and to listen with an open mind. I see a lot of denial in here, people rooting around for reasons to think that there isn't a serious fucking problem with intimidation and psychological violence taking pl…

According to the article, the author received one unwanted message every 50 days. How is it "cognitive dissonance" or "denial" to describe pressing delete every 50 days as a minor problem? Note that in a typical 2 week period, I probably get more than 36 recruiter spams. Could you concretely explain what you feel is being denied?

One every 50 days is

1) The absolute, lowest, background radiation level, of men hassling women.

2) Even despite that, demonstrably worse that what men get.

This is not the norm. This is what's still left when the volume of a woman's public presence is dialled down to infinitesimal above zero. Normal is way worse.

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