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In Spain, Politics via Reddit

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Re: In Spain, Politics via Reddit

#31

Post by herge »

r0dia wrote: post #26

I would like to rant a bit if you don't mind. There is no political Left in Europe. Podemos is not a leftist party, since no leftist party or democratic conservative party would ever get paid by the State and be part of it (like the Nazi party). It's a contradiction in terms and something that simply cannot be. Most of the people don't know the distinction between formal democracy and real(social) democracy and this…

> 4.- Different elections: for executive and legislative (like in France)

The two most powerful countries with non-figurehead executives (France and the United States) are perpetually beset with bickering and internal fighting instead of "checks and balances". Is a system with government shutdowns like we saw last year in the US, or François Hollands troubles in France any better than a system where all the power is held by the legislature and the prime minister? I only see a president as a sort of dictator who holds for 4 or 5 years the view of the electorate at one point in time, as opposed to a legislature who are always looking at future elections.

Re: In Spain, Politics via Reddit

#32

Post by joeyspn »

Podemos is undoubtedly an Internet phenomena. A modern and open party that not just uses Reddit for coordination and keeping in touch with its voters, but also makes use of tools like Agora Voting[0] for Liquid Democracy/online referendums, and mobile apps for transparent group decisions.

They say about themselves that "they're not really a Party but a tool for disrupting politics" and I think this is quite accurate... they've gone from 0 to front-runner in 5 months.

[0] https://github.com/agoravoting/agora-ciudadana

Re: In Spain, Politics via Reddit

#33

Post by jacquesm »

r0dia wrote: post #26

I would like to rant a bit if you don't mind. There is no political Left in Europe. Podemos is not a leftist party, since no leftist party or democratic conservative party would ever get paid by the State and be part of it (like the Nazi party). It's a contradiction in terms and something that simply cannot be. Most of the people don't know the distinction between formal democracy and real(social) democracy and this…

> There is no political Left in Europe.

That very much depends on which country you look at. For example, in NL we have the SP, in Germany 'Die Linke'. There are probably many like that in other countries as well.

Re: In Spain, Politics via Reddit

#34

Post by mercurial »

r0dia wrote: post #26

I would like to rant a bit if you don't mind. There is no political Left in Europe. Podemos is not a leftist party, since no leftist party or democratic conservative party would ever get paid by the State and be part of it (like the Nazi party). It's a contradiction in terms and something that simply cannot be. Most of the people don't know the distinction between formal democracy and real(social) democracy and this…

> Representativeness: not possible in Spain, Italy, Germany, Greece, Portugal among others, since they use the proportional list system.

I'm not quite sure what you mean here. Are you talking about undue importance given to small parties in such systems?

> Separation of powers: not happening in Spain. The most voted political party in the legislative elections forms government.

That's not how separation of power works...

> Imperative mandate: Sieyes abolished it during the French Revolution and it still to be restored in all Europe. The elected candidates in the legislative elections should remain loyal to their promises.

I'm also not sure what you mean by "imperative mandate". As for promises... well, there are promises and there is political expediency.

> Different elections: for executive and legislative (like in France)

I'm stopping you right here. It makes very little difference in practice, since the elections for the lower chamber happen right after the presidential elections. I also don't see how it's a benefit in general. It suffers from the idiotic, anti-democratic first-past-the-post system. I'd rather have a token President and a PM coming from a coalition instead.

Re: In Spain, Politics via Reddit

#35

Post by aptwebapps »

ep103 wrote: post #30
aptwebapps wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you have a different definition of 'left' than most Americans, so there might be some disconnect there. Here, it just means socialist progressive (or in the direction of the same), more or less.

Yes, but the meaning of left in America is so far off the definition for the entire rest of the world, it is hardly worth considering.

I presumed the GP was referring to the use of the term in the linked article - which is American, even if it's talking about something happening in Europe. I'm not saying that the American definition is to be preferred, I was just pointing out the potential disconnect.

Re: In Spain, Politics via Reddit

#36

Post by anon1385 »

blueskin_ wrote: post #11
Imerso wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not what politics in Europe look at all at the moment. The extreme right and the extreme left are growing a lot. And the center-right and center-left are pretty much merging in many countries, they are either governing in coalition, or they will have to govern in coalition in the near future if they want to remain in power. Syriza in Greece won the European elections and may govern in the future. FN is rising…

UKIP are centre-left, not 'extreme right'. On economic issues, they're to the left of the big 'left' party in the UK (Labour, who are really a more centrist party) and only really go to the right on immigration rather than social issues in general. You're confusing them with the BNP.

On the economy UKIP are certainly right wing. They supported a flat tax for gods sake. More broadly their entire reason for existing is to promote deregulation of all kinds (financial, environmental, health and safety etc).

Re: In Spain, Politics via Reddit

#37

Post by blueskin_ »

disputin wrote: post #25
ZeroGravitas wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't call them centre-left, they're a bit of grab-bag of policies e.g. some member have been a bit libertarian (which can be socially "left" but economically "right" depending on particular issues). But Xenophobia is the biggest theme, see for yourself: http://www.ukip.org/issues

Is wanting to leave the EU xenophobic? The EU is currently failing. Or wanting immigrants to be have sufficient points and be able to support themselves? This is standard for many countries.

I have to agree - in many people's eyes it's 'xenophobic' due to not having been the case in the past, even where it by all rights should have been.

Re: In Spain, Politics via Reddit

#38

Post by Al-Khwarizmi »

slapresta wrote: post #14
Imerso wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not what politics in Europe look at all at the moment. The extreme right and the extreme left are growing a lot. And the center-right and center-left are pretty much merging in many countries, they are either governing in coalition, or they will have to govern in coalition in the near future if they want to remain in power. Syriza in Greece won the European elections and may govern in the future. FN is rising…

Actually, the polls seem to imply that neither center-right nor center-left could govern by themselves or even if they formed a coalition with each other , which is an amazing change for Spanish politics.

That's not true at the moment. It is true that some polls give the sum of the two major parties less than 50% of the votes, but the electoral law is far from being purely proportional, so they would still get more than 50% of the seats.

Re: In Spain, Politics via Reddit

#39

Post by blueskin_ »

mercurial wrote: post #29
Ntrails wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought France had a hardline socialist president?

You'll be hard-pressed to find anybody putting "hardline" and "Hollande" in the same sentence. The main, genuinely left-wing measure his government took was gay marriage (and, it should be said, was adopted in spite of large demonstrations from the catholic right) but the Justice minister has also attempted to reduce the ever-increasing overcrowding of French prisons, things like this. However, his reform of the fina…

Don't forget the tax hikes that effectively drove the rich out of France (to Switzerland mostly). Are those not left wing now?

Re: In Spain, Politics via Reddit

#40

Post by dageshi »

anon1385 wrote: post #36
blueskin_ wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UKIP are centre-left, not 'extreme right'. On economic issues, they're to the left of the big 'left' party in the UK (Labour, who are really a more centrist party) and only really go to the right on immigration rather than social issues in general. You're confusing them with the BNP.

On the economy UKIP are certainly right wing. They supported a flat tax for gods sake. More broadly their entire reason for existing is to promote deregulation of all kinds (financial, environmental, health and safety etc).

They no longer support a flat tax to my knowledge.
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