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Spain is trying to get rid of Uber: drivers will face fines up to €18K

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Re: Spain is trying to get rid of Uber: drivers will face fines up to €18K

#31

Post by pron »

sergimansilla wrote: post #25

I take a fair amount of taxis and Uber. Except on some cases*, my experience with Uber is always vastly superior than it is with taxis: from the conversation to cleanliness, efficiency, etc. Specially in Spain. I agree that Uber needs to have the same fiscal treatment as taxis do, but making the service illegal is beyond ridiculous, and a very sad way to try to stifle innovation (which will end up finding its way any…

Why do you think Uber is an "innovation"? It's simply an unregulated, unsafe and uninsured taxi service. It's just like those illegal scalpers offering rides in any airport, except with a smartphone app. That's not innovation (useful and popular taxi apps existed before Uber), and whatever it is, it's not being stifled. Uber is free to apply for permits just like everyone else. I think that instead of being sad you should be proud that your country doesn't automatically adopt any potentially harmful idea that comes from America.

Re: Spain is trying to get rid of Uber: drivers will face fines up to €18K

#32

Post by TeMPOraL »

piokoch wrote: post #17

As far as I can see, Uber is the problem in countries, where taxi industry is heavily regularized. Recently Uber started its operation in Poland, in Warsaw. For 2 days that was a news, but later nobody paid much attention on it. In Poland in order to become taxi driver one needs to fulfill a number of conditions (only people who never comitted a crime are allowed a licence, must be physically and mentally healthy) a…

Yup. We already had our taxi disruption in Poland when iCar and the like appeared. They used a legal trick to get around requirements for taxi license. A dozen media storms, few slashed tires and a law change later, they were made to operate under taxi law, and everyone seems to live along well. The primary important features introduced by iCar, et al. was a) fare based on distance, therefore known before the ride, and b) use of GPS to navigate around the city.

I actually switched to iCar mostly for b) - I trust GPS more than taxi driver's instinct.

I don't see anything new Uber can bring here. We already have a taxi network with an ordering app anyway.

Re: Spain is trying to get rid of Uber: drivers will face fines up to €18K

#33

Post by _yosefk »

pron wrote: post #23
txutxu wrote: post #11

Well, a taxi license in Spain costs as much as a good new house. Maybe even two houses depending on the area. Historically, people needed to take big credits to start a taxi career. I'm not sure what is my position, but I've empathy for those who did pay such license and special insurances. Also I've empathy for those who want to make use of Uber services. It's not easy to make justice to all of them at the same time…

> Also I've empathy for those who want to make use of Uber services. It's not easy to make justice to all of them at the same time. Well, it depends on your culture and perspective, of course. To me, the answer is almost always clear and obvious: when there's a conflict between the worker's happiness and the consumer's happiness, the worker comes first. Society's role is to ensure its members can make a respectable l…

You mean typewriter manufacturers should have been kept afloat forever using taxpayers' funds so as to not fire workers?

(That's what "the worker comes first" despite the consumer not wanting the product would mean, I think. If not, then the question is where you draw the line and how you measure the harm done to the average worker when he is forced to support other workers who are unproductive compared to available alternatives. For instance, rich people have private cars and sometimes private drivers and don't need taxis that much. Who needs a taxi? Someone without a car who needs to quickly get from A to B. Could be a rather poor chap. Of course, taxis, that regulated brand of public transportation, are hardly affordable on a regular basis to "poor" people. Whether this helps or hurts "workers" is not obvious to me. All of which is not to say that I'm "on Uber's side" or some such, I'm too uninformed to take a side on this one. Just wondering about your "pro-worker" statement.)

Re: Spain is trying to get rid of Uber: drivers will face fines up to €18K

#35

Post by TeMPOraL »

santialbo wrote: post #20
oldspiceman wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't agree with your point here. It's extremely common to get ripped off by taxis in Spain. There is no incentive for them to be agreeable with foreigners.

It's easy to get ripped off by taxis anywhere in the world if you are a tourist who doesn't know your way around.

Yup. In Poland the rule of thumb is that you order a taxi from a taxi network - the ones parked outside airport or train stations are usually scammers.

Re: Spain is trying to get rid of Uber: drivers will face fines up to €18K

#36

Post by ergl »

luisivan wrote: post #19

I live in Madrid and I'm totally ashamed about this. I used Uber a couple times, the second one this friday, and I friend and I asked the driver what will he do about the fines that will start happening this monday. He just said that he will probably stop driving. I love these new kind of services and this is not the way to boost innovation. Our politicians are fucking morons.

Do you live in the same Madrid as me? I can't figure out what kind of 'innovation' Uber is bringing to the table.

There are plenty of taxis and free services for you to book one, I have never waited more than 10 minutes to get one, and most drivers are respectful and will turn the radio off or leave you alone if you say so. You can even ask them to take a particular route and they won't have any problem in doing so

Re: Spain is trying to get rid of Uber: drivers will face fines up to €18K

#37

Post by huehue »

RBerenguel wrote: post #27
sergimansilla wrote: post #25

I take a fair amount of taxis and Uber. Except on some cases*, my experience with Uber is always vastly superior than it is with taxis: from the conversation to cleanliness, efficiency, etc. Specially in Spain. I agree that Uber needs to have the same fiscal treatment as taxis do, but making the service illegal is beyond ridiculous, and a very sad way to try to stifle innovation (which will end up finding its way any…

I don't know where you have taken taxis in Spain, but all taxis I've taken in Barcelona are incredibly clean and the drivers are incredibly efficient (given that I'm Spanish and know the best routes for these trips, too, of course)

Just upon arriving to Barajas Airport in Madrid, I went outside to the taxi area and could delight myself with taxis not respecting the queue (allowing clients instead of referring them to the head of the queue) and the image of two taxi drivers fist fighting for some clients. Yup.

Not to mention they wanted to charge me over 100 euros for going from the Airport to the main train station.

From my experience the taxi industry of Spain is highly inefficient and overpriced.

Re: Spain is trying to get rid of Uber: drivers will face fines up to €18K

#39

Post by pron »

_yosefk wrote: post #33
pron wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also I've empathy for those who want to make use of Uber services. It's not easy to make justice to all of them at the same time. Well, it depends on your culture and perspective, of course. To me, the answer is almost always clear and obvious: when there's a conflict between the worker's happiness and the consumer's happiness, the worker comes first. Society's role is to ensure its members can make a respectable l…

You mean typewriter manufacturers should have been kept afloat forever using taxpayers' funds so as to not fire workers? (That's what "the worker comes first" despite the consumer not wanting the product would mean, I think. If not, then the question is where you draw the line and how you measure the harm done to the average worker when he is forced to support other workers who are unproductive compared to available…

Common sense and politics[1] usually provide the answer. I'm not talking about keeping dead industries afloat, but protecting certain necessary ventures through regulation, to ensure that the workers get compensated fairly for their required service. It is better to have customers wait another 3 minutes for a taxi, than taxi drivers not being able to make ends meet. The important thing to remember is that we aren't supposed to work for the sake of the economy; the economy is meant to work for us. What that means in practice, is left for each country, with its own culture and customs, to decide.

[1]: Although I mean politics in its very common denotation (i.e. the work of politicians, and not "politics of oppression"), it does provide a very good mechanism for groups to bargain over interests. It doesn't always come up with the same answer your common sense would give you, but it's sometimes better (though more annoying): it allows groups to consider various proposals as a package, rather than fight it out over each one in isolation (e.g. we won't oppose increase in gas tax if you don't allow unregulated taxi services).

Re: Spain is trying to get rid of Uber: drivers will face fines up to €18K

#40

Post by netcan »

pron wrote: post #23
txutxu wrote: post #11

Well, a taxi license in Spain costs as much as a good new house. Maybe even two houses depending on the area. Historically, people needed to take big credits to start a taxi career. I'm not sure what is my position, but I've empathy for those who did pay such license and special insurances. Also I've empathy for those who want to make use of Uber services. It's not easy to make justice to all of them at the same time…

> Also I've empathy for those who want to make use of Uber services. It's not easy to make justice to all of them at the same time. Well, it depends on your culture and perspective, of course. To me, the answer is almost always clear and obvious: when there's a conflict between the worker's happiness and the consumer's happiness, the worker comes first. Society's role is to ensure its members can make a respectable l…

That's a tricky position to take, as a political habit.

The problem with defining 'worker happiness' some way is that if unhappiness entitles you to something unhappiness can be achieved. What about the happiness of those who would like to be a worker, but can't because it conflicts with existing worker happiness?

Workers are ann entrenched interest group (or even class, to borrow more Marxist language) and they are interested in maintaining the way things are. The loudest are reactionary, preferring to go back to the way things were.

The unionized factories of 2 generations ago were not the pinnacle of human civilization.

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