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Earth’s Water Is Older Than the Sun

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Re: Earth’s Water Is Older Than the Sun

#31

Post by jxn »

lotharbot wrote: post #28
themodelplumber wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. > Light was created on the first day, but the Sun was created on the fourth. Where does the Bible say the Sun was created on the fourth day? It doesn't appear in the KJV or JBS; is it written like that in another translation? > Proverbs 8 identifies Wisdom as the first of God's works Are you saying that you think this is a contradiction because Genesis says Li…

> "Where does the Bible say the Sun was created on the fourth day?" Genesis 1:14-18. Of particular interest, the text doesn't actually name "Sun" and "Moon". In stark contrast to the mythologies of many surrounding cultures, they're not treated as though they have any personality or volition. They're just lights ; their only significance is that they're bright, and are the most prominent bright objects in the day and…

Actually, the naming/anthropomorphized nature of the sun and the noon--among many other abstract concepts--is still a topic of rich debate. While the English disambiguates this, the original text may not. Many things that are translated in the bible as abstract concepts actually make more sense when translated as the name of a god (with the same name in an ancient Semitic landside add the concept). Check out Robert Wright's Evolution of God for better examples

Re: Earth’s Water Is Older Than the Sun

#32

Post by lotharbot »

themodelplumber wrote: post #30
lotharbot wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Where does the Bible say the Sun was created on the fourth day?" Genesis 1:14-18. Of particular interest, the text doesn't actually name "Sun" and "Moon". In stark contrast to the mythologies of many surrounding cultures, they're not treated as though they have any personality or volition. They're just lights ; their only significance is that they're bright, and are the most prominent bright objects in the day and…

So I'm curious, which Christian sects think this means the Sun was literally created at that point? I am a Christian but I'm not all Christians, so that kind of reading is new to me and feels rather odd.

Christian Fundamentalism (which is a decidedly American/English sect, 100 years old this year) is the only sect I'm aware of that takes a hard-line literalist approach to Genesis 1, and even among them there's argument as to whether the sun is literally created at that time or if it becomes visible somehow. (That idea is fairly old -- I was just reading Aquinas' take on it, written in the 1200s: http://www.ccel.org/ccel/aquinas/summa.FP_Q70_A1.html )

Many Christian sects (historical and modern) don't view Genesis 1 as specific "points in time". There are various alternative theories -- Augustine (354-430 AD) suggests that creation of all six "days" worth of stuff was actually a single instantaneous event, and that the "days" might refer to the way God revealed creation to the "angelic mind", for example. One theory gaining more prominence is that the Genesis account parallels an older Egyptian account in a subversive way -- using the same structure (including the "days") but setting itself apart in the way it speaks about the details of God and creation (see https://bible.org/article/genesis-1-2-light-ancient-egyptian... .) Viewed from this perspective, the "days" are just poetic structure and have nothing to do with the actual timing of creation.

Re: Earth’s Water Is Older Than the Sun

#33

Post by lotharbot »

jxn wrote: post #31
lotharbot wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Where does the Bible say the Sun was created on the fourth day?" Genesis 1:14-18. Of particular interest, the text doesn't actually name "Sun" and "Moon". In stark contrast to the mythologies of many surrounding cultures, they're not treated as though they have any personality or volition. They're just lights ; their only significance is that they're bright, and are the most prominent bright objects in the day and…

Actually, the naming/anthropomorphized nature of the sun and the noon--among many other abstract concepts--is still a topic of rich debate. While the English disambiguates this, the original text may not. Many things that are translated in the bible as abstract concepts actually make more sense when translated as the name of a god (with the same name in an ancient Semitic landside add the concept). Check out Robert W…

In Genesis 1 it's fairly unambiguously "lights" in Hebrew, with a clear objectification / non-anthropomorphization. They're given proper names in other passages.

There are other parts of the Bible where the translation might possibly more naturally parallel the names of ancient gods; I haven't looked in detail. But not this one.

Re: Earth’s Water Is Older Than the Sun

#34

Post by jjsalamon »

themodelplumber wrote: post #29

As someone interested in science, I was really excited to read the headline and see the HN discussion. As a Christian I was surprised and kind of creeped out to see the "so much for the Bible" talk. I feel like a Japanese person must feel when an American tries to get them to laugh at jokes. But I guess in a way it's nice though that nobody ever brings up the sort of beyond-Religion-101 topics that actually challenge…

At the time of writing there is only 1 parent comment poking fun at the bible. Let's not get too delicate here.

Re: Earth’s Water Is Older Than the Sun

#36

Post by Cleanaxe »

sigzero wrote: post #23
Cleanaxe wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Light was created on the first day, but the Sun was created on the fourth. And Genesis presents the Universe's primordial state as being just a watery mass, so water existed before both. Fun fact: Proverbs 8 identifies Wisdom as the first of God's works, hence the Judeo-Christian tradition of identifying Wisdom with light. http://www.esvbible.org/Proverbs+8/ The New Testament also identifies Jesus as both Wisdom and…

The last one, you are trying to find contradiction where there is none.

I'm not saying there's a contradiction, I just find it interesting.

Re: Earth’s Water Is Older Than the Sun

#37

Post by nilkn »

kijin wrote: post #14

This is not surprising at all. What would the alternative be? The protoplantary disk that became the Solar System contained free hydrogen and free oxygen but no compound thereof? That's sounds unlikely. Water forms naturally given enough hydrogen and oxygen at a wide range of temperatures. Since hydrogen is everywhere, and since main-sequence stars produce tons of oxygen via fusion, there's probably a lot of water fl…

Water is indeed pervasive throughout the universe. Here's a pretty interesting and relevant article from NASA:

http://www.nasa.gov/topics/universe/features/universe2011072...

Re: Earth’s Water Is Older Than the Sun

#38

Post by themodelplumber »

jjsalamon wrote: post #34
themodelplumber wrote: post #29

As someone interested in science, I was really excited to read the headline and see the HN discussion. As a Christian I was surprised and kind of creeped out to see the "so much for the Bible" talk. I feel like a Japanese person must feel when an American tries to get them to laugh at jokes. But I guess in a way it's nice though that nobody ever brings up the sort of beyond-Religion-101 topics that actually challenge…

At the time of writing there is only 1 parent comment poking fun at the bible. Let's not get too delicate here.

Only one parent comment sure, but it was the second comment on the page at the time, and is currently the longest thread on the page. Nothing wrong with calling it out.

Re: Earth’s Water Is Older Than the Sun

#40

Post by jjsalamon »

themodelplumber wrote: post #38
jjsalamon wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the time of writing there is only 1 parent comment poking fun at the bible. Let's not get too delicate here.

Only one parent comment sure, but it was the second comment on the page at the time, and is currently the longest thread on the page. Nothing wrong with calling it out.

>Nothing wrong with calling it out.

Says who, Jesus?

The down votes are likely from sounding entitled and looking to be offended, especially if it was as you mentioned the second comment.

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