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Should I sign this agreement?

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Re: Should I sign this agreement?

#31

Post by hga »

geographomics wrote: post #17
Avalaxy wrote: post #11

> I drafted up an agreement for both of us to sign,... and gave her the code for free. You did WHAT?!

I was similarly appalled by this - but reflecting on it further, it was probably the easiest way out. Sounds like at that point, he just wanted rid of the whole project.

Given that he was about to start a full time job, he had a choice of deep sixing the code and being 100% sure her venture would fail, and have a smidgen of responsibly for that, or let her have the code and have no responsibility for her almost certain failure.

Either way, he gets nothing besides a lot of invaluable experience, that became certain once she tried to formalize their implicit? arrangement. This way all the onus for bad outcomes is on her head.

Re: Should I sign this agreement?

#32

Post by segmondy »

misiti3780 wrote: post #18

why did you give her the code for free? you should have charged her for it

He/She is a much "better" person than me. I would not have given the code for free, I would not even have given the code at all. I've developed tough skin over the years. Lots of us who code do so because we really love to, outsiders look at us as business stupid and easy to push around, and more often than should be the case, we get taken advantage of.

Re: Should I sign this agreement?

#33

Post by jayvanguard »

>... this was a particularly uncomfortable and inappropriate conversation to cover through emails and text messages.

I think this is a key lesson. If you're getting into a business relationship you need to be able to dispassionately discuss arrangements and contracts. It is far better to do that via email than verbally.

Re: Should I sign this agreement?

#34

Post by hga »

drostie wrote: post #30
geographomics wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was similarly appalled by this - but reflecting on it further, it was probably the easiest way out. Sounds like at that point, he just wanted rid of the whole project.

That doesn't sound right to me. "I just want to get rid of the whole project" sounds like a position of great strength in a negotiation. You might as well say "I'm not signing anything unless I get X" and as long as X is less costly than hiring someone to duplicate your effort, you've got a deal. My approach would look like "I know that I have a relatively stable job lined up and am facing less risk than you, which i…

It sounds to me like the costs of continuing to deal with this person, along with the almost certain failure of the venture, makes "I just want to get rid of the whole project" equal "I never want to have any dealings with the person again".

Better to have a clean and total separation and get on with his life vs. striving to have some fraction of nothing at a continuing time and energy cost (well, till the person gives up on the venture).

ADDED: As oddevan puts it elsewhere in this discussion, he was "paid in sanity".

Re: Should I sign this agreement?

#37

Post by damoncali »

MCRed wrote: post #27
damoncali wrote: post #16

The big lesson here is to sort this out before you start coding. I have an MBA and I write code. In my experience, coders overvalue their contributions and business guys overvalue theirs. But in the end, the business guys usually win. You have to think like a business guy. When I do contract code, I'm under no illusion that I am a critical piece of the business. In fact, the only thing that has any sort of ability to…

Engineers can learn business. There's very little that is difficult in business. Have yet to meet a business guy who could learn software development.

That's an unfortunate attitude that I would encourage you to drop. Any reasonably sharp, motivated person can learn anything.

Am I a business guy who learned to code? An engineer who learned business? I have degrees in both and have taken jobs in both fields. Or am I just someone who took an interest in these things and learned as much as I could about both of them?

Re: Should I sign this agreement?

#38

Post by jcadam »

The MBA student sounds like she's a complete and total sociopath who is very skilled at manipulating, using, and discarding people. I've worked for someone like this before, and it probably took years off my life. I'm older and wiser now, hopefully :)

If she wants to be successful, she should get herself hired at a large corporation. Perfect environment for someone like her.

Re: Should I sign this agreement?

#39

Post by damoncali »

Avalaxy wrote: post #11

> I drafted up an agreement for both of us to sign,... and gave her the code for free. You did WHAT?!

Under a typical founder vesting arrangement, he wouldn't have gotten anything anyhow. That's why they do that - to keep people from walking away with significant equity after a brief time working on the project.

It doesn't sound like that was the arrangement, but it should have been.

Re: Should I sign this agreement?

#40

Post by oddevan »

sosuke wrote: post #2

I want to know why walking away from such a toxic deal made this developer feel like that would make them the bad guy in the partnership. It seems like the other party wanted everything and was giving nothing in return. I was disappointed to read the developer gave the code away in the end.

I was disappointed too, but it was basically "screw off" money. At face value, it doesn't seem like the developer needed to do anything, but I could see it being something along the line of "here's what I've done so far, and in return for me giving this to you, you never talk to me again." The developer is paid in sanity, and while it seems like a bum deal from the outside, I could see myself doing something similar in order to get out of a toxic situation.
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