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Sebastian Thrun Has Left His Role as Google VP and Fellow

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Re: Sebastian Thrun Has Left His Role as Google VP and Fellow

#31

Post by shas3 »

julianpye wrote: post #26
shas3 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google X is amazing in that it is about the only one left doing true bluesky R&D. Everyone else is just doing product development. That is quite wrong, really. There are many industrial research labs that are pursuing 'bluesky' research, in pretty much all sectors, including computer science, EE, chemistry, pharmacology, etc. Just to name a few, Mitisubishi Electric Research Labs (MERL), IBM Almaden/New York/Zurich…

Just because there are research labs, it doesn't mean that they are doing truly free blue-sky research. Lots of the labs you mention have very antiquated IPR focus, especially Mitsubishi and IBM. And as an example, Almaden still feels closer to the lair of a a James Bond enemy in the 60s than a free spirited R&D lab.

If nothing, at least IBM's radio astronomy effort should count as 'bluesky' research literally and figuratively speaking,

https://www-03.ibm.com/press/us/en/pressrelease/37361.wss

Re: Sebastian Thrun Has Left His Role as Google VP and Fellow

#32

Post by walshemj »

stonogo wrote: post #17
psbp wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, at least three of its products are being used in the real world (Glass, Loon, Self-driving cars) and at least one is actually being sold (Glass), so yes.

I think you typed "yes" where you meant "no." Tech company R&D gave us things like the transistor and lasers (both from AT&T) and Mandelbrot fractals and hard drives and the entire concept of a relational database (all from IBM). PARC in specific gave us Ethernet, which I think is safe to describe as "being used in the real world." Google has a long way to go; so far, all of its real contributions have been in softwa…

And fibre optics from Martesham and before that Colossus from Dollis Hill

Re: Sebastian Thrun Has Left His Role as Google VP and Fellow

#33

Post by DannyBee »

shas3 wrote: post #25
julianpye wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My former boss (CTO of Panasonic) once told me that the only way to do real R&D is to have a monopoly that allows you to hide the margins in cutting edge R&D. Everyone else was doing just product development. Google X is amazing in that it is about the only one left doing true bluesky R&D. Everyone else is just doing product development.

> Google X is amazing in that it is about the only one left doing true bluesky R&D. Everyone else is just doing product development. That is quite wrong, really. There are many industrial research labs that are pursuing 'bluesky' research, in pretty much all sectors, including computer science, EE, chemistry, pharmacology, etc. Just to name a few, Mitisubishi Electric Research Labs (MERL), IBM Almaden/New York/Zurich…

IBM absolutely does not pursue bluesky research anymore. (I was part of IBM Watson Research)

Basically all research is tied to some sanely forseeable bottom line item.

Re: Sebastian Thrun Has Left His Role as Google VP and Fellow

#34

Post by Animats »

julianpye wrote: post #26
shas3 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google X is amazing in that it is about the only one left doing true bluesky R&D. Everyone else is just doing product development. That is quite wrong, really. There are many industrial research labs that are pursuing 'bluesky' research, in pretty much all sectors, including computer science, EE, chemistry, pharmacology, etc. Just to name a few, Mitisubishi Electric Research Labs (MERL), IBM Almaden/New York/Zurich…

Just because there are research labs, it doesn't mean that they are doing truly free blue-sky research. Lots of the labs you mention have very antiquated IPR focus, especially Mitsubishi and IBM. And as an example, Almaden still feels closer to the lair of a a James Bond enemy in the 60s than a free spirited R&D lab.

Re: "And as an example, Almaden still feels closer to the lair of a a James Bond enemy in the 60s than a free spirited R&D lab."

It does look that way. You drive in the front gate, and go along a winding road through pastures for about half a mile before reaching the big glass buildings on a hilltop overlooking a huge park. The view from the cafeteria is spectacular. That's what people thought research centers should be like in the 1960s.

Today, it's a shadow of what it once was. I happened to be there the day IBM exited the disk drive business. Major layoffs followed. It's sad.

IBM employees have won five Nobel Prizes. The last one was in 1987.

Re: Sebastian Thrun Has Left His Role as Google VP and Fellow

#36

Post by ericd »

Animats wrote: post #35

I wonder what he'll do next. Udacity isn't a research problem; it's a marketing and quality control problem. "Massively Online" courses have turned out to be something of a dud, anyway.

The people I've seen calling MOOCs a dud seem to have had the expectation that they'd see completion rates somewhere near traditional courses, which is laughable when you consider the differences in structure, demographics, and buy in. Even despite the high dropout rates, I think they end up teaching more students than the comparable class session at a university.

I took a grad class to completion on Coursera, and I think it was great - I learned quite a lot, it was free, and the quality of instruction was excellent, rivaling that of my non-lab university courses.

That said, how to effectively teach an online course is very much an unsolved problem. It's not nearly as cut and dry as you suggest. As of now, they've mostly just moved the lectures to online video, put up some online quizzes, and some forums. It's promising, but it's a naive implementation still.

Re: Sebastian Thrun Has Left His Role as Google VP and Fellow

#37

Post by bertil »

strongai wrote: post #20
ryangallen wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Udacity has done what any good start-up should and launched a solid MVP and iterated on it, delivering free, in-demand courses in a short amount of time. No, the materials and scripts have not always perfect but they are still more valuable than many college courses I've taken. If he is in fact leaving to focus energy on Udacity, isn't that a positive move in regards to your critiques?

Yes, you make a good point. My opinion - and that's all that it is - is that his (many) abilities lie in the Google [x] direction, not as a poster boy for MOOCs.

I've recorded my self and many others teaching: there is only terrible teachers, and people who survive the humiliation of seeing themselves try more than twenty times. I would never let anyone watch any of their first five takes first.

Re: Sebastian Thrun Has Left His Role as Google VP and Fellow

#38

Post by cscurmudgeon »

julianpye wrote: post #26
shas3 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google X is amazing in that it is about the only one left doing true bluesky R&D. Everyone else is just doing product development. That is quite wrong, really. There are many industrial research labs that are pursuing 'bluesky' research, in pretty much all sectors, including computer science, EE, chemistry, pharmacology, etc. Just to name a few, Mitisubishi Electric Research Labs (MERL), IBM Almaden/New York/Zurich…

Just because there are research labs, it doesn't mean that they are doing truly free blue-sky research. Lots of the labs you mention have very antiquated IPR focus, especially Mitsubishi and IBM. And as an example, Almaden still feels closer to the lair of a a James Bond enemy in the 60s than a free spirited R&D lab.

If IBM's Watson does not count as "free blue-sky" AI research, I don't know what else counts.

http://youtu.be/P18EdAKuC1U?t=2m20s

https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=an+acco...

Funnily, Google completes my phrase "an account of the principalities of wallachia and moldavia inspired this author's famous novel" but is completely clueless.

As the other poster said, Google seems to be winning the advertising game (after all that is how they make $).

Re: Sebastian Thrun Has Left His Role as Google VP and Fellow

#39

Post by mhandley »

shas3 wrote: post #25
julianpye wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My former boss (CTO of Panasonic) once told me that the only way to do real R&D is to have a monopoly that allows you to hide the margins in cutting edge R&D. Everyone else was doing just product development. Google X is amazing in that it is about the only one left doing true bluesky R&D. Everyone else is just doing product development.

> Google X is amazing in that it is about the only one left doing true bluesky R&D. Everyone else is just doing product development. That is quite wrong, really. There are many industrial research labs that are pursuing 'bluesky' research, in pretty much all sectors, including computer science, EE, chemistry, pharmacology, etc. Just to name a few, Mitisubishi Electric Research Labs (MERL), IBM Almaden/New York/Zurich…

Microsoft killed their Microsoft Research Silicon Valley lab last week. It's not at all clear at the moment what the future of blue sky research is at Microsoft.

Re: Sebastian Thrun Has Left His Role as Google VP and Fellow

#40

Post by sillysaurus3 »

ericd wrote: post #36
Animats wrote: post #35

I wonder what he'll do next. Udacity isn't a research problem; it's a marketing and quality control problem. "Massively Online" courses have turned out to be something of a dud, anyway.

The people I've seen calling MOOCs a dud seem to have had the expectation that they'd see completion rates somewhere near traditional courses, which is laughable when you consider the differences in structure, demographics, and buy in. Even despite the high dropout rates, I think they end up teaching more students than the comparable class session at a university. I took a grad class to completion on Coursera, and I…

Is how to effectively teach an online course the problem to focus on?

It's interesting to note that if MOOCs turn out to be a dud, yet people are learning effectively from MOOCs, then it's proof that people pay for a college degree, not for education. In other words, prestige seems to be the issue, not education.

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