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Startup building the open-source “operating system” of the Metaverse

lucidscape.com

31–40 of 45 posts

Re: Startup building the open-source “operating system” of the Metaverse

#31
post #22

Well, there is are several metric tons of examples out there.. Hard to resist coming up with my own ideas though since this is such an interesting topic. Maybe we don't have to have the most advanced open source 3d networking game engine out there as a protocol. Maybe we can start by building off of Named Data Networking (NDN) http://named-data.net/doc/NDN-TLV/current/ Would be nice to have everything including conte…

Not letting me edit it anymore but wanted to fix something:

  base: org/sim
  dimension: real
  procedures:
    room:
      - for: 
          range: [w, 1, walls]
          block:
            - makegeom: [cube, 1.0, 0.5, 1.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0]          
    house:
      - for: 
          range: [b, 1, bedrooms]
          block: 
          - room:
            walls: 4
      - for: 
          range: [b, 1, windows]
          block:
          - cutgeom: [quad, 0.25, 0.25, 0.25, b, 0, 0]

Re: Startup building the open-source “operating system” of the Metaverse

#32

Can someone explain what this is for? I watched the videos, and I still don't get it. And no, I haven't read Snow Crash. I shouldn't have to read a novel to get excited about a project...

Its a next-generation internet probably inspired by Snow Crash. The name "Metaverse" is used in the novel. The basics are the same (bits flowing around, binary code, etc). Instead of interacting using a computer/screen, everyone has an avatar (VR devices) and the connections between real world and metaverse and incredibly blurred.

Its an astonishing Novel, given the time it was written. Its really a very good novel, no idea about the project but the name generates a lot of hype for sure.

Re: Startup building the open-source “operating system” of the Metaverse

#33
My first thought was "Wow, somebody made that work!" After reading their site, it's clear they have a long, long way to go.

In the early days of There, Inc., I was recruited by them, and was in on some early design discussions. They wanted to build a planet-sized 3D virtual world with physical simulation, with all the scaling problems that implies. My comment was "Now let us all join hands around the world", which produced groans. (Doing physical simulation across a cell boundary is hard enough, but if the users can force you to have to do it across N cells, you have a real problem.)

For that system (and for Second Life) the assumption was that all the servers were in the same data center, with low inter-server lag. Trying to do this with home servers and lag in the 100ms and up range is going to suck. However, a distributed system where all sites are hosted in data centers on the same continent with low-latency connections might work.

Now they have to deal with the security problems, the delay problems, etc. They also need a really big MMORPG to exercise the system. Something like a planet-sized version of Minecraft would be a good test. The rules are simple and users create the content. A tougher test would be to create a simple, but huge, driving game, using Open Street Map, "seamless.gov", and topo data. Then load it up with automated traffic and let people drive in it.

Re: Startup building the open-source “operating system” of the Metaverse

#34
The more important test is not the technological one, but if the idea is useful at all. So far 3D worlds haven't proven themselves as necessary or something that leaps forward communication. It provides all kinds of constraints with few upsides. Just because the world is in 3d for my normal life doesn't mean that constraint is natural or useful by extension -- when I read I absorb language and abstract thoughts mixed with imagination without any "real world" basis. 3D avatars might look cool but they also visually become the hero when that might be exactly what we want to get away from in a community context -- the potential for new forms of representation that dont resemble the physical world. Second life was predicted by some to have already taken over all of business world, and thus far it had the most uptick and chance of all of these systems. Yet am I reading HN via some dragon emitting nerdy fireballs? No I have a simple web page with the ability to hyperlink me straight to interesting content that is more text typically. And it's working way better in this form than a 3D world could because the concept doesn't make sense to add that extra graphical dimension and navigational constraint.

Re: Startup building the open-source “operating system” of the Metaverse

#35
post #19
post #4

It's another CLR monstrosity (see the code on their Facebook page)? Why!!!???

Downvotes are not an explanation.

"monstrosity" is not an explanation, CLR is a state of the art technology. What would you suggest instead of this? A dynamic language monstrosity? A JVM monstrosity? A legacy language (C++/JS) monstrosity? An unestablished language monstrosity? Some other kind of monstrosity?

Re: Startup building the open-source “operating system” of the Metaverse

#36

The more important test is not the technological one, but if the idea is useful at all. So far 3D worlds haven't proven themselves as necessary or something that leaps forward communication. It provides all kinds of constraints with few upsides. Just because the world is in 3d for my normal life doesn't mean that constraint is natural or useful by extension -- when I read I absorb language and abstract thoughts mixed…

For a lot of purposes I agree. Hypertext is one.

But I think one reason 3D hasn't done much is that we're looking at it through a little 2D window. When VR really hits the market I think 3D worlds will be a lot more compelling.

Re: Startup building the open-source “operating system” of the Metaverse

#37
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. It would perhaps be easier to rephrase - What problem is this actually solving?

The problem, as I see it: VR and the web are too far apart. This seems to be an attempt to build a... protocol? engine? both? for moving programmable entities between volumes of space that may be controlled by different hosts. The "operating system" / Metaverse verbiage is a little grandiose, but I really like the idea. Or maybe I just miss Adobe Atmosphere :)

Please pardon my pedantry, but, I have to ask: why is VR and the web being too far apart a problem?

That condition describes the state of the two technologies, but doesn't, to me, strike as an actual problem.

"Real-time collaboration of disparate entities through video / voice / instant message is sufficiently inferior to physically present collaboration as to be a detriment to ____" would be a problem, for example.

I definitely agree that it's really cool tech, and would be great if a truly seamless MMO virtual environment were possible.

But, perhaps past attempts have sputtered out for lack of a few actual problems providing impetus for the task. Building something awesome should be reason enough, but often seems to fall short of what's necessary to see an effort succeed.

Edit: I didn't see other comments in a similar vein as this one that you've already replied to, so, I do consider the notion "asked and answered".

I struggle to come up with problems that VR solves as well, and really like the likening of it to paper or video as a communication medium.

Though, maybe we limit our exploration of its possibilities by trying to fit it into that or other existing mental schemas.

Re: Startup building the open-source “operating system” of the Metaverse

#38
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. It would perhaps be easier to rephrase - What problem is this actually solving?

The problem, as I see it: VR and the web are too far apart. This seems to be an attempt to build a... protocol? engine? both? for moving programmable entities between volumes of space that may be controlled by different hosts. The "operating system" / Metaverse verbiage is a little grandiose, but I really like the idea. Or maybe I just miss Adobe Atmosphere :)

[deleted]

Re: Startup building the open-source “operating system” of the Metaverse

#39
post #33

My first thought was "Wow, somebody made that work!" After reading their site, it's clear they have a long, long way to go. In the early days of There, Inc., I was recruited by them, and was in on some early design discussions. They wanted to build a planet-sized 3D virtual world with physical simulation, with all the scaling problems that implies. My comment was "Now let us all join hands around the world", which pr…

Many years ago some friends and I kicked around an MMO on a post-apocalyptic version of the US, full-scale. The actual data involved worked out to less than a terabyte, including topo. Modern hardware has made that part tractable.

The problem is, how the fuck do you make it fun?

Re: Startup building the open-source “operating system” of the Metaverse

#40
post #22

Well, there is are several metric tons of examples out there.. Hard to resist coming up with my own ideas though since this is such an interesting topic. Maybe we don't have to have the most advanced open source 3d networking game engine out there as a protocol. Maybe we can start by building off of Named Data Networking (NDN) http://named-data.net/doc/NDN-TLV/current/ Would be nice to have everything including conte…

I despise your use of YAML instead of JSON, but I applaud your suggestion of a flexible procedural markup language.

It allows (theoretically) for us to be sharing the same space, but I see a modern office while you see a Japanese dojo. Effectively, Spatial Style Sheets, right?

The big problem (one we still run in to everywhere else) is that people are going to want to be guaranteed that the dragon dildo they proudly display in their 'verse is seen the same by every visitor, and that's only accomplished by low-level data such as triangle meshes, UVs, and images.

Still, a very intriguing thought.

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