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Dune Genesis (1980)

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Re: Dune Genesis (1980)

#31

Post by shabda »

Nursie wrote: post #24
shabda wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Brian Herbert/Kevin J. Anderson novels are more like poor fanfiction than sequels. Thank you. I read one book by Brian H. and every chapter filled me with rage, for destroying the magic of one of my most loved books. One of the most enjoyable things about Dune is that all factions/entities have shades of grey and plans within their plan. The way Brian H. books change them to a linear story and put entities in a…

I read a lot of them because I'm a sucker. Very few authors can break my concentration, snap me out of the story and make me think "oh, that was cheap..." like the the Herbert/Anderson collaboration.

[Eg.]

In the original books even Tleilaxu are not evil. Loathsome and power hungry, yes. But not evil. They are chaotic-neutral.

There are no real antagonists, except the past and the future.

Yet in Legends of Dune Herbert/Anderson books they turn into slave/traders and organ harvesters.

I just put down sometime after that. I was worried someone will start singing the litany against fear with pop music.

Re: Dune Genesis (1980)

#32

Post by shabda »

jerf wrote: post #27
ekianjo wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even the Herbert sequels are not really that good. I'd recommend new readers to stop at Dune to avoid destroying their image of the Universe.

My stock recommendation is: The first book is a classic for a reason. However, if you don't like it, stop here. The subsequent books will not change your opinion. In fact Herbert may really not be your thing. (He has a certain unique feel to his writing, I think.) The rest of the first trilogy is definitely more hurried and rather than "justifiably classic" are merely pretty OK if you like that sort of thing. A lot o…

Like the comment below, I prefer God Emperor of Dune to Dune. In the first book, the universe is not specced out, the characters don't have enough backstory.

By the later books, you start feeling the expanse of the universe, the incredible loneliness the universes most powerful entity must endure until the golden path is secure.

Re: Dune Genesis (1980)

#33

Post by chiph »

chernevik wrote: post #30
Nursie wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Noooo! Messiah and children are amazing, and the rest are weird but great (and 5000 years distinct in time). It's well worth reading all 6. And yes, that's all 6. There never were any more than 6.

This dialogue with my son made me proud of my parenting: Me: "Godfather I?" He: "One of the greatest movies of all time." Me: "Godfather II?" He: "Transcendental. The rare sequel better than the original." Me: "Godfather III?" He: "Never happened. An elaborate hoax."

Highlander: "There can be only one"

Re: Dune Genesis (1980)

#34

Post by Radim »

LanceH wrote: post #23
Amezarak wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually find that God Emperor of Dune was my favorite, not Dune itself. I don't recall whether it was Chapterhouse or Heretics , but the scene with the Bene Gesserit in the cave has stood out in my mind for years. Really, the writing style is the same, and there's a lot of "idea" content in the sequels, especially God Emperor . I really don't feel the Dune universe is any different - but the events of Dune did cha…

I've read the first six. Rereading, I stopped at God Emperor. I tell people who are thinking about reading it that if they found Dune to be slow and difficult that they should just stop at the first one. It's a lot of world building and politics as it goes on.

This is much better advice than the grandparent.

Indeed, if you found Dune too difficult and political and expansive, don't go for God Emperor of Dune.

But if you do like that sort of stuff, someone telling you to stop at Dune would be criminal. God Emperor is easily the best in the series, IMO.

Re: Dune Genesis (1980)

#35

Post by mwerd »

jameskilton wrote: post #14
walterbell wrote: post #5

There's a good documentary about the Dune movie that was never made, http://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/jodorowskys-dune-2014 & http://jodorowskysdune.com/trailer.html

Fantastic documentary, but to be fair, Jodorowsky never actually read Dune. The story and message were completely different from Dune the book.

Jodorowsky did read Dune according to the documentarian:

"The truth is that he had not read it when he had the idea to make the film. At that point, someone had told him it was good. Hilarious. But once he embarked on his mission, he of course read it as he did the screenplay adaptation before anything. His film would have been remarkably loyal to the novel, of course with some of his own genius in the mix."

http://www.reddit.com/r/movies/comments/2csd3c/frank_pavich_...

Re: Dune Genesis (1980)

#36

Post by karcass »

chiph wrote: post #33
chernevik wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This dialogue with my son made me proud of my parenting: Me: "Godfather I?" He: "One of the greatest movies of all time." Me: "Godfather II?" He: "Transcendental. The rare sequel better than the original." Me: "Godfather III?" He: "Never happened. An elaborate hoax."

Highlander: "There can be only one"

"There should have been only one"

Re: Dune Genesis (1980)

#37

Post by consultutah »

n0body wrote: post #20
tspiteri wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't worry too much about the many sequels, they can get a bit too weird. The first book stands alone just fine. True, but if you decide to read the sequels, only read the Frank Herbert sequels. The Brian Herbert/Kevin J. Anderson novels are more like poor fanfiction than sequels.

the legends of dune trilogy were the only good dune books. the reset were drivel in my opinion. that said, i did read them all, so they can't have been that bad, but i did spend most of the time waiting for the robots to come back. which they don't do :(

You didn't read far enough...

Re: Dune Genesis (1980)

#38

Post by consultutah »

I just finished re-reading the series last week, including the last 2 books by his son. Those last 2 weren't completely awful, but they certainly didn't live up to the standards set by the original author. The only point that I was truly disappointed with the writing was when I read the following words: "male bene gesserit".

There were plenty of other inconsistencies as well, but as when watching any good movie, you need to suspend reality (in this case Frank Herbert's reality) and allow the story to play out.

I don't think I have the stomach to read the prequels, but I'm sure I'll come back and re-read the series again and again. Very few authors take the time to create such immersive universes.

Re: Dune Genesis (1980)

#39

Post by Shivetya »

tspiteri wrote: post #4
JonnieCache wrote: post #3

It probably doesn't need to be said here, but if you haven't read Dune, stop what you're doing and read Dune. If like me you enjoyed the idea of LoTR but found the writing irritating, you're going to bloody love Dune. Don't worry too much about the many sequels, they can get a bit too weird. The first book stands alone just fine.

Don't worry too much about the many sequels, they can get a bit too weird. The first book stands alone just fine. True, but if you decide to read the sequels, only read the Frank Herbert sequels. The Brian Herbert/Kevin J. Anderson novels are more like poor fanfiction than sequels.

I do not mind their books too much, the stories were interesting and some of the explanation given for various technologies was fine.

The Tleilaxu background was good, however the fault I give the son's work is far too often he would try to out do dad, as in one up the ability of the foes faced. Still I liked the Titans and found the idea of how Mentats originated was valid; whom else but a computer could train them?

Re: Dune Genesis (1980)

#40

Post by syntern »

consultutah wrote: post #38

I just finished re-reading the series last week, including the last 2 books by his son. Those last 2 weren't completely awful, but they certainly didn't live up to the standards set by the original author. The only point that I was truly disappointed with the writing was when I read the following words: "male bene gesserit". There were plenty of other inconsistencies as well, but as when watching any good movie, you…

You'll find this a fascinating read: http://www.oreilly.com/tim/herbert/

Tim O'Reilly made an interview with Frank Herbert on how he created his universe, and describes the huge effort that went into it. Worth to read. Unfortunately they don't print it anymore, but hey, at least it is available online.

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