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Counterfeit U.S. Cash Floods Crime Forums

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Re: Counterfeit U.S. Cash Floods Crime Forums

#31

Post by larrys »

amalcon wrote: post #27
larrys wrote: post #19

My question was "is buying counterfeit money but not using it a crime". According to this, it's not: http://www.secretservice.gov/money_law.shtml "Possession of counterfeit United States obligations with fraudulent intent is a violation" Specifically, at least on that page, it would not appear to be a crime to buy counterfeit money as long as a) you didn't use it and b) you didn't try to sell it.

I'd be careful. I'm not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice, but that page only refers to posession . I seem to recall things existing that are legal to have, but illegal to purchase.

I have no intention of buying the money I was just curious specifically about the law surrounding the issue. If I did intend to buy it (for whatever reason) I certainly would check further. I just found the language on the page interesting I didn't expect it to discuss the issue in that way.

Re: Counterfeit U.S. Cash Floods Crime Forums

#32

Post by jbermudes »

mschuster91 wrote: post #26
ableal wrote: post #20

It's funny that no one is checking serial numbers. Nowadays it would not be too hard to look up in a database if the number was issued, is in use elsewhere, or belongs to a destroyed note. Privacy, cost and protocol issues left as an exercise.

Why not make the serial numbers also a EC digital signature?!

Wouldn't it still be susceptible to replay attacks?

Re: Counterfeit U.S. Cash Floods Crime Forums

#33

Post by cm2012 »

justin66 wrote: post #21
crazypyro wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the article, the seller claims that the bills will pass the pen test, so that wouldn't help.

I was responding to a specific point grecy made. People will check a $20. I imagine they might even change their method of checking if a different type of counterfeit becomes popular. I've only ever seen the marker or a UV light used in public, but criminals aren't the only ones capable of adapting to new circumstances. Hopefully it's obvious that the seller mentioned in the article is probably not making or selling…

In NYC, at least, in 100s of places, I've literally never seen someone check a $20 in any way other than putting it up to the light, and that is 5% of the time. I'm sure it happens though.

Re: Counterfeit U.S. Cash Floods Crime Forums

#34

Post by larrys »

ck2 wrote: post #24
larrys wrote: post #19

My question was "is buying counterfeit money but not using it a crime". According to this, it's not: http://www.secretservice.gov/money_law.shtml "Possession of counterfeit United States obligations with fraudulent intent is a violation" Specifically, at least on that page, it would not appear to be a crime to buy counterfeit money as long as a) you didn't use it and b) you didn't try to sell it.

Police raiding your home might be fatal, so crime or not they don't have to prosecute you to solve their problem.

Police/prosecutors will generally try to build a case before they decide to simply bust into someone's house. And they work on that case for a long time because it needs to hold up in court. I'm not saying that it isn't possible (and of course depends on where you are) but if in fact the law specifically states that you have to either sell [1] or use the money (and not possess it - which was my hypothetical question) then I can't seem them breaking in w/o proof that that is the case. That's the "if".

[1] Edit: Add manufacture as well...

Re: Counterfeit U.S. Cash Floods Crime Forums

#35

Post by sjtrny »

barrkel wrote: post #28
sjtrny wrote: post #22

A lot of this concern would be removed if the US switched to polymer notes. Visiting the US last year I was surprised to see people immediately suspicious of $50 notes that I gave them. I've never seen that happen in Australia, even with $100 note.

You're attributing one thing - suspicion of a particular denomination - to something which it may not be related to. It may simply be due to how common a particular denomination is used in the cash economy. In the Eurozone, €50 notes are very frequently used - it would be unusual to be specifically suspicious of that denomination - while €100 notes are far more rare.

You could be correct although I saw many other people paying for things with $50 notes too. I didn't think they were rare. Maybe it is store policy to do the counterfeit checks on $50/100 notes?

Re: Counterfeit U.S. Cash Floods Crime Forums

#36

Post by larrys »

dsl wrote: post #10

Note that Krebs hasn't verified that any orders have been received (fake "reviews" in underground forums are very common). Lots of people have claimed to sell fake currency in these marketplaces and are almost always a scam. This looks like one too.

"Lots of people have claimed to sell fake currency in these marketplaces"

It's actually possible to print realistic currency as long as it doesn't match (in certain ways) real currency. When I was in the graphics industry we would get memos from the secret service. I don't remember the specifics but one was the size of the bill. IIRC it doesn't have as much to do (as you would think) with an exact copy.

So then the question becomes if you try to sell fake currency that isn't really even the right type of fake it's fraud. Same as if you sell any good online that isn't represented the way you describe it. And goes by the fraud laws.

But here's the thing. Nobody is going to turn you in if you scammed them on buying fake dollar bills.

Re: Counterfeit U.S. Cash Floods Crime Forums

#37

Post by Crito »

crazypyro wrote: post #16
justin66 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The copies are extremely good, and I suspect not many people in the US are going to spend the time to check if a $10 or $20 is fake. Many places will at least use the marker test on a $20.

From the article, the seller claims that the bills will pass the pen test, so that wouldn't help.

The pens are worthless in general. Real bills can "fail", fake bills easily pass if they care to. The Secret Service will tell you to not rely on them if you call them up and ask about them.

A friend of mine had a $10 bill checked and confiscated at a corner store a few years ago. The bill was genuine, but a few decades old and over those past decades it accumulated enough starch on it to trip the pen. He had to call the local SS field office and get them to talk the corner store into giving him back his bill (the SS looked up the serial number, said that it wasn't a serial number known to be used on counterfeits, told them that the pens were shit, and told them to give the bill back).

I say the pens are worthless because, although they can detect counterfeits that somebody ran through their ink-jet at home, those sort of counterfeits won't fool a standard "look and feel" check anyway. In fact, they may give you a false sense of confidence and distract you from the more robust "look and feel" check.

Re: Counterfeit U.S. Cash Floods Crime Forums

#38

Post by kordless »

ableal wrote: post #20

It's funny that no one is checking serial numbers. Nowadays it would not be too hard to look up in a database if the number was issued, is in use elsewhere, or belongs to a destroyed note. Privacy, cost and protocol issues left as an exercise.

> in use elsewhere

Nope. No way to do that reliably with a piece of paper.

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