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Ask HN: Do you think machine consciousness is possible?
31–40 of 189 posts
Re: Ask HN: Do you think machine consciousness is possible?
#32Hey guys, maybe human consciousness is nothing else but an "illusion" provided by the matching of information between what we perceive through our senses and what we have stored in our brains? Of course, that "matching" process is the big problem to crack. Could we hypothesize that when babies are born they aren't aware because they don't have a 'minimum threshold' of information in their brains that is required to enable the 'match' being produced by their input senses? Or from the other spectrum, say, advanced patients with Alzheimer disease lose their self-awareness because their memories are destroyed and the 'match' needed to trigger the 'illusion' of consciousness is disrupted ?
Re: Ask HN: Do you think machine consciousness is possible?
#33As a meta-comment, notice that threads like these usually result in many people posting lengthy first-level comments, and not doing much replying and discussing. (Compared to other HN threads, of course.)
Re: Ask HN: Do you think machine consciousness is possible?
#34AI will be achieved -- over a period of decades and by brute force. At the end, I can't say whether you'll have machine consciousness or not, but you'll have something that is indistinguishable from it. And that's good enough. What we call consciousness is probably very closely tied with having a physical body perceiving things it the outside world. So I think for a long time there will be differences between machine…
It's not conscious until it gets stupid around the hot new server down the hall: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/6132718/Men-los...
Re: Ask HN: Do you think machine consciousness is possible?
#35In short: yes. I think it's painfully clear that sometime in the coming years humanity will reach the pinnacle of its scientific achievement with the advent of an artificially intelligent machine: one that is able to think and reason and is self-aware. Technology is moving at such a rapid pace and in the right direction that this is just the next logical step. In order for this to occur, however, significant advances…
"In order for this to occur, however, significant advances must be made in fields outside of technology; e.g. quantum computing will probably be a huge stepping stone, and for that to come to fruition we must first fully prove quantum mechanics."
I recently heard about the term "yak shaving". This seems to be a good example.
Re: Ask HN: Do you think machine consciousness is possible?
#36what about when the brain is powered by machines? Does that count as a computer being self-aware?
Re: Ask HN: Do you think machine consciousness is possible?
#37Sounds like you should be going to the Singularity Summit to talk to other people who devote their lives to this issue.
Nick Bostrom's Simulation Argument details the most obvious probabilistic implications of substrate independence in consciousness: http://www.simulation-argument.com/
The most blatantly obvious indicator that consciousness is substrate-independent: We are DNA-based life forms. DNA stores information. It's program code stored in molecules. You are the product of the code of your parents. If for some bizarre reason we find out that we HAVE to use DNA to create other conscious systems, we will still have the ability to do exactly that. Not "machine" in the sense of being composed of metal, but certainly "machine" in the sense of not being the immediate product of natural selection.
David Chalmers' work should be particularly relevant to you, and you will find him at the Singularity Summit this year. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Chalmers
Even if you don't live to see machine consciousness as a reality, the only other pursuits that might compare are anti-aging and intelligence enhancement research. If you're not going to create something that can figure out how to give you an indefinite self-contiguous narrative, you have to support its creation or face certain death.
I'm guessing you already have your CS undergrad or will have it soon, and you're interested in AI, so that seems the natural choice. I'd say you're overdecided if that's what you want to study.
Re: Ask HN: Do you think machine consciousness is possible?
#38Earlier quoted context omitted.
Wouldn't you agree that it feels awfully "weird" to be a living, breathing human? Doesn't it seem to be beyond what can be expressed by mere computer algorithms? I realize it is not a defensible argument to say that the human experience is just to "weird" to be computable- I wish I had a better argument for defending my position... Nonetheless, I find it hard to understand people, such as yourself, that are probably…
Weird compared to what? I have no experience being anything other than a living, breathing human. Thomas Nagle wrote up the classic "qualia" argument you're making as "What is it like to be a Bat?" (here: http://www.clarku.edu/students/philosophyclub/docs/nagel.pdf... , it seems persuasive: that there is a certain subjective quality to consciousness & conscious experience— it must feel like something to be a bat, or…
The "weirdness" (or whatever you want to call the enormous explanatory gap between our mental lives and inanimate matter) deserves an answer. It's not something to sweep under the rug as "subjective" or "unscientific" or "poorly defined".
I agree, though, Hofstadter and Dennett have done an extraordinary job of devising such an answer. There is lots more work to be done, of course.
Re: Ask HN: Do you think machine consciousness is possible?
#39Consciousness is a feature of our external world/ Universe. We should formulate theories and test it experimentally. We should describe it in terms of basic components. Unfortunately, this is not how AI has been treating consciousness. AI treats consciousness as an art/engineering problem rather than rigorous science. But, there is hope : Journal of Experimental and Theoretical AI http://www.tandf.co.uk/journals/tf/0952813X.html
Current theories say consciousness is caused by a specific mode of representation/ computation. Like good scientists and rational thinkers we should submit everything to rigorous testing/ proof. Let us not please take things at face value.
[Or we can take the easy route and live in a bubble :) ]
Re: Ask HN: Do you think machine consciousness is possible?
#40Of course it's possible, everything you can imagine is possible, given enough time and resources. But is it probable?
But I think the question you should be asking yourself, if you're wondering how to spend your life, isn't if machine consciousness is probable, possible, whatever. You should be asking, what do I want to do with MY consciousness? If you want to work on these problems, then do it. Doesn't matter if it happens in your lifetime or not. If you enjoy it then give it a try. Worst case is you spend your time doing what you enjoy. Best case is... well, machine consciousness I suppose.
Besides, you should always be thinking big. The person I admire the most has a small metal plaque that sits on her desk. It says "what would you attempt if you knew you couldn't fail". I happen to think this is the most powerful sentiment I've ever encountered.