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Affordable Housing Draws Middle Class to Inland Cities

nytimes.com

31–40 of 115 posts

Re: Affordable Housing Draws Middle Class to Inland Cities

#31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many of the best jobs in areas such as technology, design and finance are on the coasts. No doubt that costs are lower in the middle of the country, but pay is also substantially lower. I wonder why more top companies don't try to take advantage of the cost savings of setting up in middle America vs. outsourcing jobs abroad?

I don't think pay is as much lower as you think it is. I keep in touch with a lot of people in tech from all around the country. Those in flyover country (Denver, OKC, Austin) make less money than those in comparable positions on the coast, but it might be 10% less. Meanwhile their housing costs are typically less than half. For comparison purposes: For the same price as this 800 square foot 1 bedroom condo in SF htt…

"and quite possibly more."

There's an understatement. This is a problem with recruitment to the coasts. I can't tolerate the hit in the quality of life that moving to Mountain View would require. They offered me like $50K more than I am currently getting, which sounds nice, but to live the same lifestyle with respect to house and school district would have taken at least $100K more per year probably more like $150K more as per my calculations. I just couldn't do that to my wife and kids and they aren't willing to pay enough and they responded with some ridiculous BS about the nobility of poverty which I wasn't buying.

There's also the cultural hit. Living where I am, I can afford to travel to and attend any cultural activity I want, even if the locals at my travel destination can't afford it. I went to Ireland a decade ago this year purely for the heck of it, because I can afford it, not living on the coasts. I can take a 90 minute train to downtown Chicago and afford anything there, especially stuff the locals can't afford. That really burns up an old school friend of mine who lives near-ish the stadium but can't ever afford to go given his mortgage payment vs mine. I'm not a big cultural activities guy I only go to symphony and museums like once a year, if that. But it would totally burn me up to move to a coast and be right next to something cool I'd never be able to afford to experience.

All I want is an acre of suburban land, a modest size house (not a mcmansion but not a shack), in a mostly crime free neighborhood, in a school district that regularly places highly at the nationals in the academic decathlon (I was on the team in '92 in the same district, and maybe my stupidity is why we only made 4th at state during my year LOL). And the city has 1080 acres of free city parks across about 6 square miles of city (mostly unbuildable river land, but still I googled to make sure). Then there are the county and state parks too. And the lakes with public access. What would a house like that cost in SV, maybe $5M or so? More? It cost me an eighth of a mil here before the housing bubble took off, and a paltry $50K/yr isn't going to make up the balance. I don't think my kids would be able to afford music lessons and tutoring in CA, thats for sure, we'd be lucky to afford a 2 bedroom rental at the income I was offered, despite it being about a 50% raise.

(edited to add, if it helps in comparison, my mortgage including prop tax and services is $1100/mo, so offering me an extra pre-tax $1K/week means it would be quite realistic for me to spend $2100/month in CA if I moved there.... I checked this padmapper site and that gets me a 1 bedroom apartment near Stanford? That's the best I can hope for? My whole family living in one bedroom and one bathroom? No thanks guys, I'm staying here on my "landed estate")

Jobs are hard to get around here, I admit. Most CS grads probably are pulling cable or at call centers. Pretty much everyone in WI is underemployed except the usual peter principle victims like politicians. But if you make it, you can do incredibly well, better than on the coasts.

Re: Affordable Housing Draws Middle Class to Inland Cities

#32
post #28

This is awesome news for me. I currently live in the Oklahoma City area, and have for the past 11 years after moving here from the Bay Area, and am heavily invested in the local tech community (I founded http://okcjs.com and organize http://thunderplainsconf.com among other things). The tech community here is better than it has EVER been and awesome things are happening here, but of course it's all relative - it's st…

I'm actually impressed. Most of the news I hear out of the midwest is how the libertarian movement has stripped most municipalities of money to make any improvements.

Re: Affordable Housing Draws Middle Class to Inland Cities

#33
post #32
post #28

This is awesome news for me. I currently live in the Oklahoma City area, and have for the past 11 years after moving here from the Bay Area, and am heavily invested in the local tech community (I founded http://okcjs.com and organize http://thunderplainsconf.com among other things). The tech community here is better than it has EVER been and awesome things are happening here, but of course it's all relative - it's st…

I'm actually impressed. Most of the news I hear out of the midwest is how the libertarian movement has stripped most municipalities of money to make any improvements.

The MAPS projects were funded by a temporary one-cent sales tax increase that was proposed by the city, and the citizens voted to approve. The first MAPS project was so successful that the voters passed MAPS2, and now we're on MAPS3.

A good article with a nice summary of events is here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mick-cornett/oklahoma-city-map...

Re: Affordable Housing Draws Middle Class to Inland Cities

#34

Man, I feel like I'm going to be really negative, I hope not, but here goes: OKC is undergoing an oil boom, the secondary effects of which are being reported in this article (IMO). My advice: come live in Oklahoma or Kansas if you actually like it here and want to be here for a long time, because when the boom dies, you'll find it harder to leave. Opportunities abound on the coasts. Texas, well, Texas is always a gre…

Being from OKC and with plenty of family still left that I still visit frequently, I can say I heartily endorse moving there if, and only if, you: 1) Can tolerate daily encounters with racist and homophobic statements and words like nigger and faggot being thrown around by ~everybody. 2) Think it's funny when the local paper actually uses the word "Osamacare" in print. 3) Enjoy minor earthquakes.

As an Okie (now living in NY), the last two are very accurate. Can't say I've heard much on 1) but polite or quiet racism is definitely prominent. The state hates Obama, hates renewable energy (even though it could be a leader in both wind and solar energy), and hates rational thinking.

If you're not a church goer or conservative, imho, it's not an enjoyable place. You will be outnumbered 90-1. And once you've lived in a community that has a vibrant artistic community (that you partake in), it becomes very difficult to enjoy a city that just doesn't respect that (and doesn't feed that part of your life).

And I say this as someone who loves Oklahoma. But it's problems far outweigh the positives for me to ever move back. I'll take NY or LA along with the expense over a cheaper growing "town".

And having lived thru the oil bust in the 80s, and how much OKC is married to the wealth and growth of Devon, Chesapeake and the oil/gas industry, another bust or even long periods of negative growth will kill the OK economy. The state leaders won't have the will to counteract that force with investments in tech and renewable energy.

Re: Affordable Housing Draws Middle Class to Inland Cities

#35
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many of the best jobs in areas such as technology, design and finance are on the coasts. No doubt that costs are lower in the middle of the country, but pay is also substantially lower. I wonder why more top companies don't try to take advantage of the cost savings of setting up in middle America vs. outsourcing jobs abroad?

They do. http://techcrunch.com/2014/07/10/silicon-valleys-real-estate... From a broad climate change perspective, is it really so good that SF and New York are contributing to faster population growth in the South/Southwest, where water resources are more scarce? And cities are less dense, facilitating more driving and consumption of gas?

> in the South/Southwest, where water resources are more scarce?

As opposed to the SF Bay area, which has convenient fresh water resources... dependent on dwindling snowpack in the Sierra Nevadas.

Re: Affordable Housing Draws Middle Class to Inland Cities

#36
post #28

This is awesome news for me. I currently live in the Oklahoma City area, and have for the past 11 years after moving here from the Bay Area, and am heavily invested in the local tech community (I founded http://okcjs.com and organize http://thunderplainsconf.com among other things). The tech community here is better than it has EVER been and awesome things are happening here, but of course it's all relative - it's st…

Thanks for the write-up. What's the climate like? Does it feel weird not being able to drive to a beach/ocean easily? How did you decide on OKC? I've always imaged Boulder would be nice if I ever moved inland?

Re: Affordable Housing Draws Middle Class to Inland Cities

#37
post #32
post #28

This is awesome news for me. I currently live in the Oklahoma City area, and have for the past 11 years after moving here from the Bay Area, and am heavily invested in the local tech community (I founded http://okcjs.com and organize http://thunderplainsconf.com among other things). The tech community here is better than it has EVER been and awesome things are happening here, but of course it's all relative - it's st…

I'm actually impressed. Most of the news I hear out of the midwest is how the libertarian movement has stripped most municipalities of money to make any improvements.

Might be time to start looking into more diverse news sources.

Re: Affordable Housing Draws Middle Class to Inland Cities

#38
post #28

This is awesome news for me. I currently live in the Oklahoma City area, and have for the past 11 years after moving here from the Bay Area, and am heavily invested in the local tech community (I founded http://okcjs.com and organize http://thunderplainsconf.com among other things). The tech community here is better than it has EVER been and awesome things are happening here, but of course it's all relative - it's st…

How long ago did you buy your house? If a person bought the house today, would they still pay only $640/mo?

Re: Affordable Housing Draws Middle Class to Inland Cities

#39
post #28

This is awesome news for me. I currently live in the Oklahoma City area, and have for the past 11 years after moving here from the Bay Area, and am heavily invested in the local tech community (I founded http://okcjs.com and organize http://thunderplainsconf.com among other things). The tech community here is better than it has EVER been and awesome things are happening here, but of course it's all relative - it's st…

Thanks for the write-up. What's the climate like? Does it feel weird not being able to drive to a beach/ocean easily? How did you decide on OKC? I've always imaged Boulder would be nice if I ever moved inland?

Honestly, the climate is not that great - we have both extremes (really host in the summer, and snow/ice in the winder), and I do really miss the beach - that is the #1 thing I miss about CA. Central Oklahoma is also fairly flat, so if you like mountains in the distance and a little colder climate, Boulder may be more your thing. The key for me is how much impact I can have here. I feel like Boulder already has a lot going for it, but OKC is on the verge of something even better. There is a lot of room here for more tech founders and more tech companies to make a real difference and not be "just another tech startup", if you know what I mean.

Re: Affordable Housing Draws Middle Class to Inland Cities

#40
post #28

This is awesome news for me. I currently live in the Oklahoma City area, and have for the past 11 years after moving here from the Bay Area, and am heavily invested in the local tech community (I founded http://okcjs.com and organize http://thunderplainsconf.com among other things). The tech community here is better than it has EVER been and awesome things are happening here, but of course it's all relative - it's st…

How long ago did you buy your house? If a person bought the house today, would they still pay only $640/mo?

My house cost $76,000 when I purchased it 7 years ago, and it would be only slightly more today - around $85,000 or so. Also, it of course depends on interest rate, loan term, insurance, local taxes, etc. To be fair though, it's a small starter home that my wife and I bought when we first got married. A house we might buy if we were moving now might be more in the $150k-185k range for a nice 4bd. 2.5ba. newer house on a good amount of land (up to 1 acre).
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