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Programmer to Manager

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31–40 of 45 posts

Re: Programmer to Manager

#31
I did more or less exactly this - after two years working as a developer, I pushed myself into a "team leader" position, managing a team of half a dozen people in one location and semi-managing a few others in a different location. I did this for about 18 months for a large (and fast growing) organisation.

I managed to negotiate about 25% of my time for development (some of it quite high-level architecture, but often still writing actual code); the rest was personnel management, planning and organisation, liaising with sales and project management, sometimes attending sales pitches, and training other teams. I actually had a great time, met people from all over the organisation, got some travel out of it, and learnt a hell of a lot, almost all of which has been beneficial to me later in my career.

Personnel management was definitely a real challenge - in ways I absolutely had not predicted (we had some, shall we say, "interesting" characters on the team, and I got to know the HR people very well by the end of it).

After 18 months, I moved to another company to take a role which ostensibly should have been similar but ended up migrating back into a more-or-less pure development role as a technical lead. The skills I learnt then - especially anything to do with personnel, sales, and planning - are still extremely useful to me as a software consultant / small business guy today.

I don't know if this route is for everyone - I was already naturally pretty confident and articulate, and for developers who aren't especially born that way, I think a lot of management tasks and managerial expectations are probably scary and unpleasant. But for me, at least, I enjoyed it and have few complaints.

Re: Programmer to Manager

#32
I took a position as a team manager when I was offered, and I absolutely do not regret it, but it made me realize that what I really wanted to do was to be a developer.

Try to find out what you really want to do, and be aware of that it is not straightforward to go back to a position as a developer in the same company after you've become a manager.

Re: Programmer to Manager

#33
I think taking on team leadership roles (where you're still >=60% technical) is fine that early.

I wouldn't make a jump into pure management that early. I would fear that it would do two things, both bad:

1. Prevent you from developing the necessary technical experience, instincts, and judgment that will serve you well later in your career.

2. Prevent you from "tasting management" and deciding whether or not you like it. Many don't, and that's perfectly OK. I am in the category of "initially reluctant managers" which makes me both good and bad. Good because I'm not in it for the power or title. (Managers who are can be incredibly corrosive.) Bad because there are some parts of managing that are necessary but distasteful to me and so I naturally deprioritize them or am less than good at them. Things like figuring out something personal about someone on your team and figuring out how to motivate them or how to help them break through what's blocking them. Those can be a struggle for me, as I'm a natural engineer, not a "people person". I see some of my peers who got into management out of desire, and while they're not nearly as strong technically, they appear effortless when dealing with people and their idiosyncrasies.

Being able to "try on" managing a team at your current role is possibly great. If you like it and are good at it, you learned something, but you still should proceed slowly with the transition.

If you don't like it and decide to stay technical, there's no harm whatsoever in giving that up (at your current or next job). I hear in interviews pretty regularly, "they were pushing me into management and I like to stay technical". When I have a technical role (which is always), that's music to my ears.

Re: Programmer to Manager

#34

It depends what you want to do but as a manager I'd like to say a few things I found making the move: 1) It's obviously very different. It's primarily about organisation and co-ordination - you need to understand all the moving parts of a project, know what's important, what might need your attention and what can be left alone. You might want to ask yourself whether after 3 years experience you feel you're equipped t…

This contains already most of my realizations about management as well: it's a completely different job and your role to team and code will change as well. What I want to add is that you don't need to become a manager to make money. Most middle management doesn't make that much more money than the engineer. Building capital is more about what you do with your paycheck than the size of it.

Re: Programmer to Manager

#35

It depends what you want to do but as a manager I'd like to say a few things I found making the move: 1) It's obviously very different. It's primarily about organisation and co-ordination - you need to understand all the moving parts of a project, know what's important, what might need your attention and what can be left alone. You might want to ask yourself whether after 3 years experience you feel you're equipped t…

Completely correct on all points. When I was a programmer, I would sit and stew about the decisions management made. I was deluded into thinking "I would do this different". Moving into management and realizing that it is a totally different role of planning, organization and coordination - all of which isn't really in your control.

After having been a manager for a few years now, I realize my tech skills have degraded. So I do side projects programming things I want to do, the way I want to do it to keep my skills up to date.

The other thing I think I'm realizing is that being a manager is sort of generic role. Most career paths forward at this point look rather boring and mundane. Even if it is a new project - some sort of skunkworks effort - using some new tech and solving really cool problems - managing that isn't much different than managing a team maintaining a 10 year old system. Maybe morale is easier to manage.

Think about what your next position would be after taking a management role - your options become limited. Other companies may see you as "manager" and not as "developer" regardless of skills, perhaps thinking subconsciously that "if I hire this guy, he is going to want my job".

Re: Programmer to Manager

#36
post #21

Every manager of programmers I've known who was not themselves a competent programmer caused more harm than good. Take that for what you will.

Beats having a manager that has completely no engineering background what so ever. We have those... they are very dangerous.

The horror ...

Example:

Explaining why testing is necessary. Corollary: Explaining why despite having delivered the application once without testing once, it does not mean testing is useless.

Explaining that our testing is not useless because the client found a bug.

Explaining that it is normal that we get some specification wrong and need to change them after further discussion with the client. No we do not need to fire the BA.

Explaining why, despite coding our apps "by the spec" we still need to schedule some integration testing.

Explaining that public shaming of a developer that committed a bug is counterproductive.

Explaining that the priority on task to LOW allow us to know what task will not be done if running out of budget. Also explaining that setting all the task as HIGH is not a workaround for lack of budget.

Explaining that budget consumption is not a proper indicator of progress. Also 9 women cannot have a baby in 1 month.

Sometimes the client is wrong, it is ok to discuss with the client.

It is ok to be wrong. Yes developer are wrong all the time and that does not make them bad developers.

You cannot estimate with 100% certainty.

Analogies and high level description are not substitute for in depth knowledge.

Re: Programmer to Manager

#37
I'm a manager these days, and I think it's two very different roles. While I was never the best developer (and probably will never be), the managerial role is kind of awesome because it's about amplifying others' ability to be great.

Management is much more of a service role (and much less of a directly creative role), but I've found it to be a good fit because you get to serve a bunch of wicked smart people, which is super fun.

Good management is all about reducing total cognitive load for your engineers: keeping stakeholders off their back, taking heat when things go awry, being a crap umbrella for the team so they can work, etc. Done right it's immensely rewarding, but definitely not in the way programming is.

Also - in my experience the number one thing you want to look for in vetting a 'good' management job is the quality of the executive you'll be reporting to. Are they a strong, fair leader? If yes, go for it. If no... you're gonna have a bad time.

Re: Programmer to Manager

#38
I had roughly 6 years of experience before I made the transition. I had spent a considerable part of those 6 years thinking about all the things I'd do if I were the manager of my team. Whenever I interviewed for an IC role, I made my intentions clear that I wanted to get into management long-term. I was offered a management role 5 months into a job and I took it. All those years of thinking about management enabled me to transition nearly smoothly.

Looking back, the 6 years I spent coding were extremely valuable. The only way I'd have become a manager after 2-3 years was if I had had a good mentor. My advice would be to spend the next 3-5 years building a lot of things and observing your leaders closely. Read about what great managers do and don't do and play out scenarios in your head.

Re: Programmer to Manager

#39

If you're starting to do technical management after only 2 or 3 years working as a coder, I would say that's a bad move. Project management, people management - all fine, but it's extremely unlikely you have the depth of experience required to be providing technical direction for any kind of a large project

And with only 2 years of programming its unlikely that you will have developed enough soft people skills.

I'd argue that these skills are only tangentially related. Despite what others experiences are with MBA types, one of my best managers ever was a very smart recent MBA grad with no programming experience.

He cared deeply for the team, set up growth paths for everyone that wanted them, acted as a crap umbrella when shit hit the fan, praised publicly and provided very constructive criticism in private.

Re: Programmer to Manager

#40
post #3

From my experience every developer I know who ended up early as a manager, where not really happy with that. Most of them had the impression of being taken apart of technical challenges, and wasting their time in endless meetings.

To some extent I think this type of experience is almost a rite of passage as developers become increasingly senior. I've had experiences along these lines as have most of my more seasoned colleagues. Management sounds OK from a distance, but when devs realize the kind of petty idiocy that will now dictate their daily life, it's normal to start running back to the compiler. This may not be true in companies where eng…

Thanks for this post. Can you drill into a little bit what you mean by "campaigning" though? Do you just mean constantly lobbying people in your organization to gather support for process changes, new programs, initiatives etc. that you want to sponsor?
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