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RedHat requests Russian partners to suspend projects under U.S. sanctions

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Re: RedHat requests Russian partners to suspend projects under U.S. sanctions

#31
post #16

Starting a tech company in the US is looking like a less and less attractive prospect. This is doubly true if the company focuses on security/privacy of its users.

Or you know - Russia could stop meddling in Ukrainian affairs, stop shipping arms across the border, etc.

FYI: it isn't right when we do it either.

Re: RedHat requests Russian partners to suspend projects under U.S. sanctions

#32
post #16

Starting a tech company in the US is looking like a less and less attractive prospect. This is doubly true if the company focuses on security/privacy of its users.

As would be China, Russia, the UK, and Australia. I'm a proponent of splitting a business up in to parts like Sharman/Kazaa did. Getting out of the current DNS system using something like Namecoin would be even better.

Re: RedHat requests Russian partners to suspend projects under U.S. sanctions

#33
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was a pretty funny comment and I know its ironic, but still it is useful to point out that RedHat has a lot of products, including Middle-ware and cloud solutions that these partners resell for good money. Since Russian business is buying them, it does find them useful and thus sanctions are biting someone. Food for thought - what are the implications for Russian big-business of being forced out of the global cl…

For big business? Nil. Big business doesn't need 3rd party cloud services other than as something to sell to offset their own infrastructure investment. As to who these sanctions are biting. Sanctions always bite someone, but rarely do they hurt leaders. I think often they can help extend a regime's grip because it plays into propaganda. Also, if sanctions were imposed generally for dicking about in other countries o…

The sanctions are not meant to get rid of Putin, and they could not. The sanctions are meant to put price tag on Putin's most egregious actions. Of course, if you view it as "denying Putin access to Linux tech support", it sounds stupid, but obviously it is much broader than that, RH is just one very tiny piece here. The idea is to make certain actions costly for Russia as a state and for Russia ruling clique, and thus to reduce motivation for actions that cause sanctions. Is it going to work? It depends on the original level of motivation, either it was high enough so Putin decides it is worth the cost, or not. In any case, rising of the price would make it less likely.

Deposing Putin is pretty much out of the question, the US has neither will nor means to do it, and in any case with 80% popular support (even if those figures are inflated the popular support are extremely high) it would do no good to anybody. Management and containment remains only option, and sanctions are how the containment is done.

Re: RedHat requests Russian partners to suspend projects under U.S. sanctions

#34
post #6
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, US government can order any private company to suspend working with any list of companies, just like that? I'm not defending nor attacking anyone here, just honestly inquiring, as I haven't had a reason to think about such issues before.

US can do it as an economical sanction. In this case it doesn't seem to be effective though.

Given how much time has passed since introduction of the sanctions, it is impossible to say now if they are effective or not. Sanctions do not work overnight.

Re: RedHat requests Russian partners to suspend projects under U.S. sanctions

#35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMHO if your only/main source of news is the western media, you get a very one sided, anti-Russian point of view. Things are really not that black and white, they almost never are in the global politics.

Hmm. Is there actually any doubt that Russia is tacitly providing support to Novorossiya?

There actually is, if by Russia you mean Russian government. Support to "Novorossiya" simply can't achieve anything, perhaps only help it last a little bit longer. When Russia wanted to change the status quo it had legal excuses and it acted openly and forcibly. Half-measures take you nowhere.

Re: RedHat requests Russian partners to suspend projects under U.S. sanctions

#36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMHO if your only/main source of news is the western media, you get a very one sided, anti-Russian point of view. Things are really not that black and white, they almost never are in the global politics.

lambda's already replied about the relative trustworthiness of different media sources. However, lambda's earlier post was limited to why a US company can interfere with the contracts of non-US companies. The problem, of course, is that Red Hat can get into legal trouble if it does business, directly or indirectly, with the targeted companies, but Red Hat's independent partners are under a different legal system, and…

Most contract law systems include the notion of force majeure, which significantly limits the liability for breach of contract in such circumstances. Government sanctions is a common example of force majeure.

Re: RedHat requests Russian partners to suspend projects under U.S. sanctions

#37
post #23
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have read both Western and Russian sources on the conflict. Let's just say that I find the Western sources on the matter much, much more trustworthy. It's very clear that Russia is running a propaganda campaign, which is apparently reasonably effective within Russia but less convincing when you have access to other sources of information. The Russian propaganda campaign was even fairly effective at spreading the ru…

The Russians just need a little Lebensraum. The West has continued its policy of containment even after the fall of the Soviet Union. This can be seen in the aggressive expansion of the EU and of NATO. It is necessary that Russia have scope to influence its neighbors and build partnerships in order for it to be a free and prosperous nation.

Here's to hoping that history is only rhyming.

I do get the feeling that Putin is a bit smarter and a bit less insane, but I would be hesitant to bet on it. The apparent concentration of power in one individual makes Russia scary as hell at the same time as being very brittle.

Re: RedHat requests Russian partners to suspend projects under U.S. sanctions

#38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In some sense. If you wanted to get the government to enforce the contract, they wouldn't, so there you go, paid off.

The Russian government will enforce a contract made in Russia.

Only if Russian law would somehow exclude the notion of force majeure (which it does not) or Russian courts would decide to make political decisions (which they definitely could and routinely do). In the latter case, American companies would have to seriously think if the profitability of the business in Russia is enough to warrant the enforcement risks due to political courts.

Re: RedHat requests Russian partners to suspend projects under U.S. sanctions

#39
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For big business? Nil. Big business doesn't need 3rd party cloud services other than as something to sell to offset their own infrastructure investment. As to who these sanctions are biting. Sanctions always bite someone, but rarely do they hurt leaders. I think often they can help extend a regime's grip because it plays into propaganda. Also, if sanctions were imposed generally for dicking about in other countries o…

The sanctions are not meant to get rid of Putin, and they could not. The sanctions are meant to put price tag on Putin's most egregious actions. Of course, if you view it as "denying Putin access to Linux tech support", it sounds stupid, but obviously it is much broader than that, RH is just one very tiny piece here. The idea is to make certain actions costly for Russia as a state and for Russia ruling clique, and th…

If we really wanted to affect Putin, we need to be really nice to Turkey, then cut Russia a trade deal.

Re: RedHat requests Russian partners to suspend projects under U.S. sanctions

#40
post #20

Ah yes, the well known "topple enemy leaders by restricting their access to Linux tech support" strategy. Gets them every time.

This was a pretty funny comment and I know its ironic, but still it is useful to point out that RedHat has a lot of products, including Middle-ware and cloud solutions that these partners resell for good money. Since Russian business is buying them, it does find them useful and thus sanctions are biting someone. Food for thought - what are the implications for Russian big-business of being forced out of the global cl…

The implications are the same as when Google pulled out of China. That is, native Russian services will overtake US competitors, and with government backing, the US companies will be unable to respond or compete. This policy, while I suspect it will hurt Russia in the short term, will ultimately only benefit domestic Russian corporations while hurting American ones.

We saw this happen with Google/Baidu. Before Google pulled out of China, Baidu didn't stand a chance. Now, it's a global competitor. I wrote a final paper for my "next china" class in college, where my thesis was that the Great Firewall is economically beneficial for China. By inconveniencing Chinese users of foreign (read: American) services, it gives domestic competitors an inherent advantage. I argued that China doesn't actually care so much for the political reasoning behind the GFW, as everyone knows it can be trivially circumvented, but rather continues utilizing it because of the economic advantages it bestows on domestic corporations.

Baidu, Tencent, Alibaba, and other massive Chinese corporations built their businesses by copying the models of their American counterparts. The Chinese government gave them a huge advantage by subsidizing their development and crippling their US competitors. Now, these companies are on their way to controlling markets of the same size as their American competitors. It won't be long before Chinese companies are actually competing with American companies for American customers.

I suspect Russia, which is a country full of engineering talent (see: malware), will follow the same roadmap as China. That is: 1) cripple US internet businesses in Russia, 2) subsidize domestic competitors, 3) watch its own Internet companies take over the domestic market.

This move by the US government will have short term effects detrimental to Russian efficiency, but in the long term, Russia comes out on top in this scenario.

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