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A $650M Donation for Psychiatric Research

nytimes.com

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Re: A $650M Donation for Psychiatric Research

#31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there is a lot of basic research to be done. I hope this research amounts to real advances!

Strangely enough it may be that our attempts to create artificial people (AGIs) will permit us to understand what mental disorders are all about.

Is it ethical to experiment on artificial people? Wouldn't the artificial person describe itself as experiencing consciousness?

Re: A $650M Donation for Psychiatric Research

#32
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strangely enough it may be ____________ will permit us to understand what mental disorders are all about. ( ) Hypnotism ( ) Psychoactive drugs ( ) Functional programming ( ) Meditation ( ) Phrenology

None of your examples entail building a mind. Also there's a kind of irony in my example, since as a branch of computer science it is independently funded and seemingly unrelated to mental health.

But you're guilty of assuming your conclusion.

You have a model of the brain. You do not have a model of the mind. You assume that by simulating a brain with significant details, a simulated mind will emerge. I find that's a big pill to swallow.

Re: A $650M Donation for Psychiatric Research

#33
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of your examples entail building a mind. Also there's a kind of irony in my example, since as a branch of computer science it is independently funded and seemingly unrelated to mental health.

But you're guilty of assuming your conclusion. You have a model of the brain. You do not have a model of the mind. You assume that by simulating a brain with significant details, a simulated mind will emerge. I find that's a big pill to swallow.

Nah, I don't assume it. Hence 'may' and 'attempts'. But the explanation is simple enough. If you can discover what it takes to code a mind then you're also going to learn some of the systemic faults that minds, qua minds, can develop. Of course, I could be wrong about this. It could be that mental diseases are all purely down to hardware issues (brain health). But it seems like a bad bet. For example: addiction, or at least specific types of addiction, depend on people's culture and choices.

Re: A $650M Donation for Psychiatric Research

#34
post #24
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you prefer that model? In fact, I would say your model has it backwards -- as a philanthropist, rather than devote my money to a cause, I should coerce/influence politicians with money, so as to compel through force of law other peoples money to flow to that cause.

One could argue that increased government funding for science is more likely to fund basic science and other "non-sexy" but still important and likely to pay dividends research.

In theory (and hopefully) but all of the non-sexy stuff ends up as political wedge issues. And when that happens we have people like Palin decrying research on fruit flies in Paris, France.

Re: A $650M Donation for Psychiatric Research

#35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strangely enough it may be that our attempts to create artificial people (AGIs) will permit us to understand what mental disorders are all about.

Is it ethical to experiment on artificial people? Wouldn't the artificial person describe itself as experiencing consciousness?

Sure, it isn't ethical to experiment w/o consent. But in order to program an AGI, you need first to conjecture an explanation of how the mind works. One may be able to deduce from that explanation some of the ways in which minds can go wrong. Also, assuming consent is given, it will likely be easier (and less physically invasive) to observe the internal state of an artificial person.

Re: A $650M Donation for Psychiatric Research

#36
post #34
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One could argue that increased government funding for science is more likely to fund basic science and other "non-sexy" but still important and likely to pay dividends research.

In theory (and hopefully) but all of the non-sexy stuff ends up as political wedge issues. And when that happens we have people like Palin decrying research on fruit flies in Paris, France.

Honestly, at this point, "Science" is a wedge issue.

Re: A $650M Donation for Psychiatric Research

#37
post #11
post #9

It is a wonderful donation, but I do wish that philanthropists would spend money on lobbying congress and The President to increase science budgets by the billions of dollars per year. Money could also be donated to those running in congress who are favorable to increasing the science budget of NIH, NSF.

Why do you prefer that model? In fact, I would say your model has it backwards -- as a philanthropist, rather than devote my money to a cause, I should coerce/influence politicians with money, so as to compel through force of law other peoples money to flow to that cause.

This science research is very, very expensive costing many billions of $$$ on an ongoing basis. Regular charity is a "drop in the bucket" for this kind of research which should be paid for by governments anyway. For health, total spending was $3.8 trillion this past year. Spending more money on health research could have significant ROI in terms of reducing the growth rate of that bill.

Re: A $650M Donation for Psychiatric Research

#38
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you prefer that model? In fact, I would say your model has it backwards -- as a philanthropist, rather than devote my money to a cause, I should coerce/influence politicians with money, so as to compel through force of law other peoples money to flow to that cause.

This science research is very, very expensive costing many billions of $$$ on an ongoing basis. Regular charity is a "drop in the bucket" for this kind of research which should be paid for by governments anyway. For health, total spending was $3.8 trillion this past year. Spending more money on health research could have significant ROI in terms of reducing the growth rate of that bill.

And for those who didn't see the live presentation, they all made the point that the biggest story here was that they hoped this announcement would galvanize the community in order to drum up more attention, excitement and thus money.

As an example, many of the big pharma companies have already or currently are pulling out of the psych field. If this huge investment jump starts more researchers to go into this field instead of something else (e.g. cancer) it could create a positive feedback loop.

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