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New York’s Shadow Transit

newyorker.com

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Re: New York’s Shadow Transit

#31

Post by lflux »

WildUtah wrote: post #16

This is a great story. It's a look at how people really live in a modern city and the border between formal and informal commerce. One of the key research targets in modern sociology and economics and political science is the emergence of institutions like dollar vans. It's very difficult to get a public system to cover every route and part of the city that needs transit, but most city authorities are reluctant to li…

> In Mexico City, the city has simply licensed dollar vans with just the minimal oversight necessary for public safety. They've all painted themselves green and white and the informal routes have firmed up but there is still -- decades later -- no map, public or private, of the routes of the most common form of transit in this modern city of 22 million.

http://www.viadf.com.mx/directorio/Microbus looks like a good directory of microbus routes.

Re: New York’s Shadow Transit

#32

Post by sparkman55 »

_delirium wrote: post #28
sparkman55 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, that's the gap. It's about a mile from the commuter rail to downtown, and the public transit options between are quite slow. It's no wonder that private transportation startups abound in San Francisco. I guess I'm spoiled by the well-interconnected transit systems in many international cities; step off the (high-speed) intercity rail and downstairs into the core of a robust subway system, or walk to the bus term…

Have you considered the other popular transit option in international cities, riding a bike? In Copenhagen you do not cover 2km distances by Lyft, Uber, or a bus, because 2km is such a trivial distance you just bike it yourself in a few minutes. And yes, even if you have two kids and groceries with you— because cargo bikes are common and easy ( http://daneshea.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/IMG_10731.jpg ).

Yes! Caltrain is actually very accommodating to bicyclists, with no extra charge for bikes and special bike cars (that are often full at peak hours).

I personally bike about a mile to a train station in Palo Alto, and about a mile from Caltrain to the office in San Francisco.

However, San Francisco has some fundamental problems that make it less hospitable to biking than Copenhagen. It is notoriously hilly, and doesn't have the awesome protected bike tracks that Copenhagen has.

Re: New York’s Shadow Transit

#33

Post by prawn »

This sort of thing will be handled by autonomous vehicles in the future, potentially plotting an efficient route based on people needing a ride and their respective destinations.

With an app and even 1-2 of the right vehicles, someone could effectively enter the public transport space whereas doing so now would require a salaried driver on top of that and bring pricing that would be too high for ride-sharing.

Re: New York’s Shadow Transit

#34

Post by kijin »

WildUtah wrote: post #16

This is a great story. It's a look at how people really live in a modern city and the border between formal and informal commerce. One of the key research targets in modern sociology and economics and political science is the emergence of institutions like dollar vans. It's very difficult to get a public system to cover every route and part of the city that needs transit, but most city authorities are reluctant to li…

Most parts of American cities (and their suburbs) are covered with nothing but hundreds of blocks of dreary, monotonous, cookie-cutter single-family homes. Outside the city center, the population density drops dramatically. How many people do you think in a block full of single-family homes? A couple hundred at most.

Contrast this with a city like Seoul, where nearly every block is filled with condos and apartments, right up to the edge of the green belt. Each block could house at least a thousand people. Seoul has a population density of 43K per square mile. New York City has only 28K. San Fran has 17K. Tokyo has 16K. Los Angeles has 8K. Dallas has 1.4K. Even the suburbs of Seoul have higher population density than most American cities.

Near every street in Seoul has a bus route going through it and/or a subway line below it. There is no gap for private shuttles to fill. But this convenience comes at a price: everyone must live in dreary, monotonous, cookie-cutter apartments and condos. Maybe that's better than living in dreary, monotonous, cookie-cutter single-family homes; at least the buildings are better maintained, and it's certainly better from a carbon footprint point of view as well. But it does get a bit suffocating, and the tightly packed structure leaves little room for experimentation and disruption.

Re: New York’s Shadow Transit

#35

Post by seanmcdirmid »

rahimnathwani wrote: post #19
jrockway wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that's racism, I think that's business. Taking someone from Penn Station to Grand Central Terminal is pure profit, because it's fast and you're guaranteed a fare once you get to Grand Central. Taking someone from low-density area A to low-density area B is less profitable, so you don't see many cabs in these low-density areas. I see this in action all the time, because I tend to bike late at night when…

since they have to if flagged down Do they abide by this rule 100%? How is it monitored or enforced?

Probably more so than Beijing taxi drivers.

Re: New York’s Shadow Transit

#36

Post by _delirium »

sparkman55 wrote: post #32
_delirium wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you considered the other popular transit option in international cities, riding a bike? In Copenhagen you do not cover 2km distances by Lyft, Uber, or a bus, because 2km is such a trivial distance you just bike it yourself in a few minutes. And yes, even if you have two kids and groceries with you— because cargo bikes are common and easy ( http://daneshea.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/IMG_10731.jpg ).

Yes! Caltrain is actually very accommodating to bicyclists, with no extra charge for bikes and special bike cars (that are often full at peak hours). I personally bike about a mile to a train station in Palo Alto, and about a mile from Caltrain to the office in San Francisco. However, San Francisco has some fundamental problems that make it less hospitable to biking than Copenhagen. It is notoriously hilly, and doesn…

> protected bike tracks

I recently ran across a hard-to-believe, but as far as I can tell, accurate statistic: the Copenhagen metropolitan area has more miles of protected bike lanes than the entire United States combined does. That is somewhat surprising, since the Copenhagen metro area isn't really all that big.

Re: New York’s Shadow Transit

#37

Post by thrownaway2424 »

prawn wrote: post #33

This sort of thing will be handled by autonomous vehicles in the future, potentially plotting an efficient route based on people needing a ride and their respective destinations. With an app and even 1-2 of the right vehicles, someone could effectively enter the public transport space whereas doing so now would require a salaried driver on top of that and bring pricing that would be too high for ride-sharing.

Did you even read the article? Half of the dollar van experience is the opportunity to connect with your own immigrant community and speak your native language. It's a social experience that silly technogadgets can't replace.

Re: New York’s Shadow Transit

#38

Post by Blackthorn »

jgiger2014 wrote: post #4

It seems *similar unlicensed busses are gone now: http://www.fastcompany.com/1839333/business-lessons-chinatow...

I never understood how those unlicensed "Chinatown buses" managed to survive anyway. Their fares weren't any cheaper than their licensed (and FAR safer) brethren in Megabus.

Re: New York’s Shadow Transit

#39

Post by seanmcdirmid »

eru wrote: post #11
ebiester wrote: post #8

I don't know how the regulations worked in Istanbul, but they were very common even with the other transit options, and worked very well. I'd go from Kadikoy to Taksim and back late at night and walk or take the taxi for the rest. For 3 bucks (6 lira) they would leave when full, approximately every 5 minutes, and were pretty organized. This is one of the areas where we could use a better public-private partnership in…

For westerners the most baffling experience is paying in a dolmus: your money goes via the persons in front of you to the driver, and change gets handed back the same way in the opposite direction.

Similar to a Thai Jeepney.

Re: New York’s Shadow Transit

#40

Post by ChrisNorstrom »

slapshot wrote: post #24
WildUtah wrote: post #16

This is a great story. It's a look at how people really live in a modern city and the border between formal and informal commerce. One of the key research targets in modern sociology and economics and political science is the emergence of institutions like dollar vans. It's very difficult to get a public system to cover every route and part of the city that needs transit, but most city authorities are reluctant to li…

> I understand that in Los Angeles, where the busses are awful... This seems to be a common refrain, but it's also outdated. Both the bus and subway networks in LA are massively larger than in San Francisco (which, by the way, has the world's slowest bus fleet at 8.1 mph [1]). LA County is massively larger than San Francisco (including the equivalents of the entire Peninsula, Oakland, and Marin) and has sections of v…

LA's public transit broke every misconception I had about it. It was fantastic. We actually ditched our rent-a-car and grabbed a $5/day transit pass and got to most of the places we wanted to go. All without being stuck in traffic. From Griffith Observatory to downtown, to long beach, to hollywood blvd. And it was super clean. The subway stations were beautiful. I can't wait to visit the city in a few more years after they build out the newer lines.
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