This appears to be unrelated to the Kuro5hin derived CMS named Scoop?
Scoop: A Glimpse Into the NYTimes CMS
31–40 of 76 posts
Re: Scoop: A Glimpse Into the NYTimes CMS
#32Context: I'm a former copy editor with experience working for digital-only (e.g. Forbes.com) as well as print-driven magazines newspapers. One of the things that's difficult when designing a CMS that works for both digital and print is that there are far fewer space constraints online than in print, and you want to ultimately generate an article that works in both formats. (Oh, and on mobile, and in a condensed versi…
> a way of representing the underlying data in which writers and editors can designate certain paragraphs or sentences or phrases as more important than others
Doesn't HTML do this? is more important than , etc.
Re: Scoop: A Glimpse Into the NYTimes CMS
#33Context: I'm a former copy editor with experience working for digital-only (e.g. Forbes.com) as well as print-driven magazines newspapers. One of the things that's difficult when designing a CMS that works for both digital and print is that there are far fewer space constraints online than in print, and you want to ultimately generate an article that works in both formats. (Oh, and on mobile, and in a condensed versi…
> a way of representing the underlying data in which writers and editors can designate certain paragraphs or sentences or phrases as more important than others Doesn't HTML do this? is more important than , etc.
You're missing the mark of this scenario — the headings are all more important than paragraphs, but maybe a summary or "background info" paragraph is clearly less integral than its nearby paragraphs, or maybe the second half of an intro feels a bit "fluffy" but still adds. If you have space constraints, they'd be the first priority to go.
Re: Scoop: A Glimpse Into the NYTimes CMS
#34Context: I'm a former copy editor with experience working for digital-only (e.g. Forbes.com) as well as print-driven magazines newspapers. One of the things that's difficult when designing a CMS that works for both digital and print is that there are far fewer space constraints online than in print, and you want to ultimately generate an article that works in both formats. (Oh, and on mobile, and in a condensed versi…
> a way of representing the underlying data in which writers and editors can designate certain paragraphs or sentences or phrases as more important than others Doesn't HTML do this? is more important than , etc.
Well, yes, but in only the broadest sense possible. For the purposes of an op-ed piece or a feature story, though, you'd need to have much more control.
Actually, this comment illustrates that such a system might not be as easy as you'd think. Some natural-language processing/generation would come in handy to ensure the following things:
* proper capitalization
* subject/verb agreement
* proper punctuation
* number agreementRe: Scoop: A Glimpse Into the NYTimes CMS
#35Context: I'm a former copy editor with experience working for digital-only (e.g. Forbes.com) as well as print-driven magazines newspapers. One of the things that's difficult when designing a CMS that works for both digital and print is that there are far fewer space constraints online than in print, and you want to ultimately generate an article that works in both formats. (Oh, and on mobile, and in a condensed versi…
> a way of representing the underlying data in which writers and editors can designate certain paragraphs or sentences or phrases as more important than others Doesn't HTML do this? is more important than , etc.
No. Or rather; that would be pretty horrible html from a semantic standpoint -- and perhaps more importantly, it would need parsing into text anyway -- so might as well be more explicitly different from html.
That said, html5 is pretty free in terms of what you put in the document -- personally I'd probably prefer a "weight" or "weight-group" attribute applied to elements and/or set on span-elements. Weight might be a float between 0.0 and 1.0 (pick one to be most important, maybe let "heavy" weights "sink to the bottom", and "fall off"... ?) -- the idea of a "weight-group" would be to group headers and/or phrases/paragraphs to be dropped together -- eg for this comment, you might want to drop all references to "weight-group" -- if you wanted a shorter, simpler version.
Too far down this path and you're square in natural language processing territory -- but it should be easy to mock up a web app that lets the author/editor preview how different versions would render/look -- and allow adding/removing tags/weights to the text(s) as appropriate.
Perhaps one useful extension would be auto-promoting a paragraph and/or (depending on format/space) part of a paragraph, or just a header -- to be used as a "deck" and/or summary (for eg rss feeds) etc?
Re: Scoop: A Glimpse Into the NYTimes CMS
#36Earlier quoted context omitted.
Heh. You might find my CMS ( http://www.webhook.com ) funny then. It's a CMS based on static-site-generator concepts... it deploys static websites for example and is easy to use and malleable. However it still has a firebase backend and a traditional /cms/ page with all the modern trappings you'd expect. So I kind of went for both :)
Ooohh. I like where your head is with webhook.com. (How did you get that domain!) I would have backed your campaign had I been exposed to it. Any way to join late? Alright... hear me out... thoughts on combining webhook.com with Atom as a single download/install. There are custom Atom packages that provide UI to achieve what you are doing through the CLI. Preview locally, too.
I bought the domain along with webhook.org awhile ago. They were surprisingly inexpensive. If you'd like to get in, just send me an email dave@webhook.com and reference this post.
Atom stuff sounds like a neat idea, but I'd rather not tie us to any specific editor. Obviously people can write whatever they want though. We plan on open sourcing most of the code.
Re: Scoop: A Glimpse Into the NYTimes CMS
#37Context: I'm a former copy editor with experience working for digital-only (e.g. Forbes.com) as well as print-driven magazines newspapers. One of the things that's difficult when designing a CMS that works for both digital and print is that there are far fewer space constraints online than in print, and you want to ultimately generate an article that works in both formats. (Oh, and on mobile, and in a condensed versi…
Assuming such a tool existed, would writers be ready to use it? Is there much precedent for writing "scalable copy" to the level of detail you describe? Seems like it would be pretty difficult and the necessary magic (e.g. in the example you posted, cutting out the "Well, " would require capitalization of "yes") could lead to unexpected results and awkward flow.
Re: Scoop: A Glimpse Into the NYTimes CMS
#38Context: I'm a former copy editor with experience working for digital-only (e.g. Forbes.com) as well as print-driven magazines newspapers. One of the things that's difficult when designing a CMS that works for both digital and print is that there are far fewer space constraints online than in print, and you want to ultimately generate an article that works in both formats. (Oh, and on mobile, and in a condensed versi…
Assuming such a tool existed, would writers be ready to use it? Is there much precedent for writing "scalable copy" to the level of detail you describe? Seems like it would be pretty difficult and the necessary magic (e.g. in the example you posted, cutting out the "Well, " would require capitalization of "yes") could lead to unexpected results and awkward flow.
Would writers be ready to use it? Not at first. Well, at least not the older writers who are still resentful that they have to write with a digital audience in mind. But those writers are dropping like flies.
Is there much precedent for writing scalable copy? Yes! I used to have to cut wire stories to fit. Let's say 25 newspapers run the same wire story, each with different length requirements. That's 25 editors who have to make different cuts, and some might in haste cut sections that are actually pretty important. Some writers give cues to the editors -- "cut this graf if necessary" -- to avoid that happening.
Is there much NEED for scalable copy? Yes! It potentially saves copy editors a lot of work. And if the "magic" can be automated, it saves a lot of time, too!
Re: Scoop: A Glimpse Into the NYTimes CMS
#39Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't know about Joomla but Wordpress and Drupal are hardly falling out of favor; they're actually both growing quite rapidly. Developing a custom CMS makes sense for exactly one type of company: a publisher whose entire business depends on their CMS. For companies in that situation, developing a custom CMS is a capital investment in their core product. Everyone else will save time, money, and security headaches by…
None of the metrics I've seen outside of Acquia marketing materials suggest Drupal is growing. Developer engagement plateaued a couple years ago if Google keyword searches and module issue queues are anything to go by. The number of purely Drupal dev shops have plummeted over the last few years. Job postings (locally and elsewhere) appear to be limited to well-established large enterprise and .edu, and regional shops…
Drupal and Wordpress are growing in different ways. Drupal is growing into more complex, higher-cost-per-project jobs that would have gone to big ticket closed source CMS platforms a few years ago. And Wordpress is growing into the mid-size jobs that Drupal and Joomla used to be the only option for.
By any metric of public popularity, Wordpress is growing a lot faster than Drupal. Drupal's growth is into the enterprise arena which is not as public.
The number of purely Drupal shops is dropping because pretty much every agency of note had added Drupal to their stable of solutions. It's not an esoteric differentiator anymore--which is actually a form of growth for the platform.
Re: Scoop: A Glimpse Into the NYTimes CMS
#40Context: I'm a former copy editor with experience working for digital-only (e.g. Forbes.com) as well as print-driven magazines newspapers. One of the things that's difficult when designing a CMS that works for both digital and print is that there are far fewer space constraints online than in print, and you want to ultimately generate an article that works in both formats. (Oh, and on mobile, and in a condensed versi…
> a way of representing the underlying data in which writers and editors can designate certain paragraphs or sentences or phrases as more important than others Doesn't HTML do this? is more important than , etc.
Those are for headers. Hence the "h". Not for paragraphs or sentences.