Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Erik Meijer: Duality and the End of Reactive [video]

channel9.msdn.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 68 posts

Re: Erik Meijer: Duality and the End of Reactive [video]

#31

Post by kitsune_ »

haberman wrote: post #7
noelwelsh wrote: post #2

The first six minutes alone are worth a listen if you're in a rabble-rousing mood.

Wow, I listened to the first six minutes on your recommendation and was pretty put off. The speaker mocks his audience of Microsoft engineers (like not in fun, he is really saying their culture sucks). He is dismissive of "reactive programming" as nonsense from architecture astronauts, without giving a remotely fair description of what it actually is. His straw-man of "var x = 10; println(x); x = 42; println(x)" is n…

Erik Meijer is actually one of the main guys responsible for the popularization of 'reactive programming' with his Rx extensions for .NET [1]. It's probably a fair assumption that he knows more about this topic than most people.

[1] http://channel9.msdn.com/Shows/Going+Deep/Expert-to-Expert-B...

Re: Erik Meijer: Duality and the End of Reactive [video]

#32

Post by jacquesm »

AlexanderDhoore wrote: post #30
jacquesm wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- real time - avionics - type inference - duck typing You like challenges don't you? ;) I like the literate component a lot, I can see why that would be a very big plus when you're building avionics software. Bookmarked your thesis. What was your reason for going for 'duck typed' and 'scripted' rather than strongly typed and compiled? (Which I would assume to be a whole lot more suited for the intended branch of indu…

Haha, that's a lot of questions. Let me try to go over them. I say SolScript is "duck typed" and "scripted", because that's how it feels to program SolScript. However, under the hood, SolScript is a statically typed, compiled language. About the "spreadsheet" idea, that is exactly what the SolScript IDE (Solide) is going to be. There will be a spreadsheet mode, which displays the source code as a spreadsheet. The las…

> Haha, that's a lot of questions.

Well, you post your thesis, I dig in :)

> Let me try to go over them.

Much appreciated, thanks for all your answers, I've read a good chunk of your thesis by now (that's hard work :) ), good stuff.

> We have no "deep copy" of the data. The data is simply mutated in place, for performance. The compiler knows in what order it has to update the datacells, so SolScript users don't notice any of this. If I say `b = a`, then `a` will be calculated before `b` uses it. (If you want the value of `a` before `a` is updated, you say `b = previous a`.)

Ok. That may cause some trouble when there are long chains of circular dependencies but I'm sure you're aware of that and that you have a solution in place (assuming circular dependencies are even allowed).

Again, thank you for all the answers and much good luck with your project, I'll be following your progress, it's super interesting what you are doing.

Re: Erik Meijer: Duality and the End of Reactive [video]

#34

Post by headinthebox »

haberman wrote: post #7
noelwelsh wrote: post #2

The first six minutes alone are worth a listen if you're in a rabble-rousing mood.

Wow, I listened to the first six minutes on your recommendation and was pretty put off. The speaker mocks his audience of Microsoft engineers (like not in fun, he is really saying their culture sucks). He is dismissive of "reactive programming" as nonsense from architecture astronauts, without giving a remotely fair description of what it actually is. His straw-man of "var x = 10; println(x); x = 42; println(x)" is n…

pwnd ;-) Next time I'm back in Seattle to visit my ex-Microsoft SDE buddies we should grab a beer together.

Re: Erik Meijer: Duality and the End of Reactive [video]

#35

Post by headinthebox »

bad_user wrote: post #12
haberman wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, I listened to the first six minutes on your recommendation and was pretty put off. The speaker mocks his audience of Microsoft engineers (like not in fun, he is really saying their culture sucks). He is dismissive of "reactive programming" as nonsense from architecture astronauts, without giving a remotely fair description of what it actually is. His straw-man of "var x = 10; println(x); x = 42; println(x)" is n…

Erik is a little trollish when expressing his opinions. From what I noticed, he loves flames. People either love his style or hate it. I guess you're in the later group - personally I don't mind when he's mocking something I care about, because from what I observed, he's always joking or half-joking and he'll say the opposite of what he just said in a couple of weeks. > He is dismissive of "reactive programming" as n…

> for example I think they made design mistakes

Curious to hear more.

Re: Erik Meijer: Duality and the End of Reactive [video]

#37

Post by dtech »

cbeach wrote: post #29

I'm confused as to why Erik would want anything to do with MSDN? He slates MS on a regular basis. Also, I suspect very few amongst the YC/HN developer community would touch Microsoft products.

Other than him having been employed by MS and making major contributions to .NET like LINQ and Reactive extensions?

Yeah I wouldn't know why he would want to have to do anything with MSDN

Re: Erik Meijer: Duality and the End of Reactive [video]

#38

Post by brodo »

shaydoc wrote: post #3

i thought it was a good presentation, however, I recently watched a Netflix one, published by Matt Marenghi, which to me was infinitely better. I think the description of events as just another collection, albeit a time based collection flow was nicer ( Observable === Collection + Time ), and also that this collection must have the ability to tell you that it has terminated. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRYN2xt11E…

Watched both talks and the Netfix one is really way better.

Re: Erik Meijer: Duality and the End of Reactive [video]

#39

Post by shailesh »

AlexanderDhoore wrote: post #30
jacquesm wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- real time - avionics - type inference - duck typing You like challenges don't you? ;) I like the literate component a lot, I can see why that would be a very big plus when you're building avionics software. Bookmarked your thesis. What was your reason for going for 'duck typed' and 'scripted' rather than strongly typed and compiled? (Which I would assume to be a whole lot more suited for the intended branch of indu…

Haha, that's a lot of questions. Let me try to go over them. I say SolScript is "duck typed" and "scripted", because that's how it feels to program SolScript. However, under the hood, SolScript is a statically typed, compiled language. About the "spreadsheet" idea, that is exactly what the SolScript IDE (Solide) is going to be. There will be a spreadsheet mode, which displays the source code as a spreadsheet. The las…

SolScript looks fantastic.

Considering Avionics domain, using Coq or ATS to prove the correctness of SolScript compiler will help boost confidence.

Re: Erik Meijer: Duality and the End of Reactive [video]

#40

Post by louthy »

headinthebox wrote: post #35
bad_user wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Erik is a little trollish when expressing his opinions. From what I noticed, he loves flames. People either love his style or hate it. I guess you're in the later group - personally I don't mind when he's mocking something I care about, because from what I observed, he's always joking or half-joking and he'll say the opposite of what he just said in a couple of weeks. > He is dismissive of "reactive programming" as n…

> for example I think they made design mistakes Curious to hear more.

Same here. For the record I think Rx is a lovely piece of work (as is LINQ btw). I can't think of anything I'd change in the bits of Rx that I've used so far.
Post reply on HN