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The Slow Web

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Re: The Slow Web

#31

Post by kaitai »

weland wrote: post #22
aethertap wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's more to food than nutrition. The process of growing, preparing, and eating food has been a major source of social connection and "quality time," which is in my opinion the most significant value of slow food for well-being. You can get the nutrition you need with a pittance today in terms of economics, but as a society I think we've failed to fill the social gap that was left open by our liberation from the w…

> There's more to food than nutrition. The process of growing, preparing, and eating food has been a major source of social connection and "quality time," which is in my opinion the most significant value of slow food for well-being. Have you ever been involved in the process of growing food? A workday on the farm is substantially longer than any office job, the only way to talk to people is to scream because they're…

Not all vegetables must be produced in the way you describe. In my tiny, poorly-weeded backyard, we've got herbs, beans, peas, 6 kinds of weird lettuce, arugula, tomatoes, strawberries, gooseberries, and more onions than reasonable. Right, it doesn't feed us entirely most days, but we don't have to buy many veggies. I don't get paid to tend it. The time out there is probably good for my mind, given all the research showing green space as effective as pharmaceuticals in combating ADD/ADHD in children.

If we all had our little gardens the food landscape of America would change wildly. Japan's got tiny little gardens tucked into every corner. It's a different model of production.

Re: The Slow Web

#32

Post by weland »

kaitai wrote: post #31
weland wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's more to food than nutrition. The process of growing, preparing, and eating food has been a major source of social connection and "quality time," which is in my opinion the most significant value of slow food for well-being. Have you ever been involved in the process of growing food? A workday on the farm is substantially longer than any office job, the only way to talk to people is to scream because they're…

Not all vegetables must be produced in the way you describe. In my tiny, poorly-weeded backyard, we've got herbs, beans, peas, 6 kinds of weird lettuce, arugula, tomatoes, strawberries, gooseberries, and more onions than reasonable. Right, it doesn't feed us entirely most days, but we don't have to buy many veggies. I don't get paid to tend it. The time out there is probably good for my mind, given all the research s…

> Right, it doesn't feed us entirely most days, but we don't have to buy many veggies.

This is in the context where, as ZenPro stated above:

> industrial countries spend between 9-11% of their annual income on foodstuffs and less than 5% of their time gathering said foodstuffs - the lowest in time/money expenditure for food in the history of the world.[1]

Things would change radically if you had to feed off it entirely most days. Having a small garden is great, both as a hobby and through the healthy food you get from it, but glorifying the times when you spent "quality time" working your ass off in the field is a bit far fetched...

Re: The Slow Web

#33

Post by weland »

aethertap wrote: post #30
weland wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's more to food than nutrition. The process of growing, preparing, and eating food has been a major source of social connection and "quality time," which is in my opinion the most significant value of slow food for well-being. Have you ever been involved in the process of growing food? A workday on the farm is substantially longer than any office job, the only way to talk to people is to scream because they're…

I own a farm, and work on it every day with my family, so yes, I do have personal experience with it. It turns out that working together on something you value seems to build relationships, at least in our case.

How big a family and how big a farm? My grandparents used to have one, too. As they grew old and the family either shrank or less of it became available for regular fieldwork, it simply became unsustainable for them. They kept a small-ish garden that provides them with most of the fruits and vegetables they eat fresh, some livestock, and rented the rest of the land.

Re: The Slow Web

#34

Post by aethertap »

aethertap wrote: post #30
weland wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's more to food than nutrition. The process of growing, preparing, and eating food has been a major source of social connection and "quality time," which is in my opinion the most significant value of slow food for well-being. Have you ever been involved in the process of growing food? A workday on the farm is substantially longer than any office job, the only way to talk to people is to scream because they're…

I own a farm, and work on it every day with my family, so yes, I do have personal experience with it. It turns out that working together on something you value seems to build relationships, at least in our case.

Family of four, twenty acres. I custom graze cattle and raise ducks and fruit and nut trees, and keep a large garden.

Re: The Slow Web

#35

Post by dhimes »

UweSchmidt wrote: post #21
ZenPro wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spoken truly like someone who has no idea what they are talking about. At present industrial countries spend between 9-11% of their annual income on foodstuffs and less than 5% of their time gathering said foodstuffs - the lowest in time/money expenditure for food in the history of the world.[1] If we die slightly earlier due to a possible rise in cardiovascular disease then it was a small price to pay for saving yea…

A surprising comment! I thought it was clear with all the obesity, diabetes and definitive rise in cardiovascular disease that there must be something fundamentally wrong with our food, one way or another. Imagine that: people eat until their arteries clog, literally stopping the flow of blood so they die. Oh but the branded, and yes, overpriced food-product was oh so satisfactory for the senses, the sugar, the fat,…

To be fair, we are also out-living the other stuff that used to kill us, namely infectious diseases. We now have the luxury of dying from heart disease and dementia. That's not so say that there is no room for improvement...

Re: The Slow Web

#36

Post by UweSchmidt »

dhimes wrote: post #35
UweSchmidt wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A surprising comment! I thought it was clear with all the obesity, diabetes and definitive rise in cardiovascular disease that there must be something fundamentally wrong with our food, one way or another. Imagine that: people eat until their arteries clog, literally stopping the flow of blood so they die. Oh but the branded, and yes, overpriced food-product was oh so satisfactory for the senses, the sugar, the fat,…

To be fair, we are also out-living the other stuff that used to kill us, namely infectious diseases. We now have the luxury of dying from heart disease and dementia. That's not so say that there is no room for improvement...

That's true for certain things - maybe people didn't really recognize dementia as such back then, when old and frail people died from some infection before other problems could manifest.

On the other hand, heart diseases are an area where things got significantly worse for no good reason.

We can be safe from common infections (thanks to hygiene) and also not all suffer from heart diseases (by not eating junk), there's no trade-off here.

Re: The Slow Web

#38

Post by lilsunnybee »

ZenPro wrote: post #9
dasil003 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's amusing in the least. Have you looked around recently at people's diet and health? It's not just fast food, but convenience foods in general are huge business, and it's people largely bought into the marketing simply because they offer ever increasing taste and convenience. There are huge margins to be made by processing the same mono-culture grains into ever more refined and perfected addictive fo…

Spoken truly like someone who has no idea what they are talking about. At present industrial countries spend between 9-11% of their annual income on foodstuffs and less than 5% of their time gathering said foodstuffs - the lowest in time/money expenditure for food in the history of the world.[1] If we die slightly earlier due to a possible rise in cardiovascular disease then it was a small price to pay for saving yea…

Averaging expenditures across the whole population is very misleading. Do you take the average of incomes in the US, and assume everyone in the country must be doing pretty good? Outliers like silicon valley tech workers might spend 9-11% of their income on food, but there are plenty of people spending a much larger portion than that, but their paychecks still aren't enough to buy comparable nutrition as those people who really only have to spend 9-11% of their cushy paychecks.

Have you tried to buy nutritious food on food assistance? Better hope a church or food pantry (if you car-less wastes of space have one nearby) can help make up the difference, or just go back to eating those big macs and fries because you're just too stupid to eat healthy (only costs 11% you numskulls, get off your lazy asses!)

Re: The Slow Web

#39

Post by ZenPro »

dasil003 wrote: post #24
ZenPro wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spoken truly like someone who has no idea what they are talking about. At present industrial countries spend between 9-11% of their annual income on foodstuffs and less than 5% of their time gathering said foodstuffs - the lowest in time/money expenditure for food in the history of the world.[1] If we die slightly earlier due to a possible rise in cardiovascular disease then it was a small price to pay for saving yea…

I don't have time to refute this kind of wrong-headed thinking in detail. Suffice it to say that I'm not just talking about fast food per se, I'm talking about the entire way that modern industrially prepared foodstuffs are processed, the huge proportion of grain that goes into it, and the way flavors are extracted and re-added while completely separating them from the nutritional value that said flavors would normal…

You do have time to correct my thinking because you attempted to correct it.

Mark your words?

You talk about being in the nutritional dark ages then mention eating fresh animal meat

No evidence exists anywhere that human beings should consume meat. Our digestive tracts are 4X longer than any other animal that consumes meat (which leads to rotting flesh in our body (not ideal)) and in repeated tests the sight and smell of fresh meat fails to incite child salivary glands but fresh fruit and vegetables does.

Unlike actual carnivorous animals which are equipped with the teeth, claws and digestive means to eat meat. Young offspring naturally hunt other prey and salivate at the prospect of flesh/organs.

To paraphrase yourself - mark my words, we will look back on the human consumption of meat with the same horror that considered bloodletting as a medical practice.

Disclaimer - I eat meat despite the huge risks to my wellbeing.

Test - Leave a toddler in a playpen with a rabbit; trust me he won't attempt to fucking eat it. He has not been social conditioned to see the consumption of meat as normal.

Leave an omnivorous or carnivorous animal in a locked environment with the same rabbit. You will need a new rabbit.

Re: The Slow Web

#40

Post by ZenPro »

UweSchmidt wrote: post #36
dhimes wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, we are also out-living the other stuff that used to kill us, namely infectious diseases. We now have the luxury of dying from heart disease and dementia. That's not so say that there is no room for improvement...

That's true for certain things - maybe people didn't really recognize dementia as such back then, when old and frail people died from some infection before other problems could manifest. On the other hand, heart diseases are an area where things got significantly worse for no good reason. We can be safe from common infections (thanks to hygiene) and also not all suffer from heart diseases (by not eating junk), there'…

How many old and frail people do you think were cutting around prior to the 18th Century?

I would wager not many.

Humans have to die from something at some point. If you have compelling evidence that fast food reduces your life feel free to post it.

A number of journals have begun to dispute that obesity even causes the conditions we currently associate with it.

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