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iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks

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Re: iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks

#31

Post by _greim_ »

shurcooL wrote: post #22
LoganCale wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good. It should be a problem for them.

I'm genuinely curious, how does it being a problem for them benefit you? (I'm assuming you're not saying that out of indifferent malice but because you have personal gains, which is normal.) Can you please elaborate on your point?

I think on the general principle of privacy. But also, the idea that the more trackable you are, the more easily manipulated you are by marketers and advertisers. Free markets work better the more consumers are rational. Giving marketers deep psychological and behavioral insight increasingly enables them to circumvent rationality and "hack" consumers in various ways.

Re: iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks

#32

Post by praseodym »

brunnsbe wrote: post #6

If this becomes the trend (which in my opinon would be nice) it will become a big problem for companies that specialise in customer tracking e.g. for supermarkets and big department stores. Previously it was quite easy to track a customer, how long he or she spends time in the store, which floors he or she visits, etc. by putting up dummy WiFI-networks that the customers phones find by giving out their MAC-addresses.

The MAC address is stable once a device is authenticated (connected) to the network. With the trend of providing 'free' wifi access within stores, making sure that users connect to that network is enough to continue tracking them.

Re: iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks

#34

Post by TazeTSchnitzel »

yuubi wrote: post #28

We learned during the prosecution of Swartz that MAC addresses are the analog of VIN number numbers, and that tampering with them is a sign of ill intent. I await the federal case against Apple or an Apple customer with bated breath.

>VIN number numbers

PNS syndrome plus one?!

Re: iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks

#35

Post by tombrossman »

captn3m0 wrote: post #26

Is there something like this available for Linux desktops?

There is a package called macchanger which is said to have the ability to spoof a random MAC address at each reboot. I have a new laptop with Ubuntu 14.04 freshly installed and I can't get it to work though. It's not a high priority but I would like to have this working soon. I used to do this about ten years ago on a laptop running XP and whatever program I was using worked flawlessly. I'm thinking it should be even easier in Linux but haven't found an 'it just works' solution yet.

Re: iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks

#36

Post by shurcooL »

colechristensen wrote: post #27
shurcooL wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm genuinely curious, how does it being a problem for them benefit you? (I'm assuming you're not saying that out of indifferent malice but because you have personal gains, which is normal.) Can you please elaborate on your point?

Most people, if it explained to them, would be generally uncomfortable with the idea of their movements in a public place being so specifically logged. How would you feel if every time you were in a store, an employee followed you around and took notes on your actions?

Thanks for a constructive response to my question. I'm simply trying to gain a better understanding of the situation.

> How would you feel if every time you were in a store, an employee followed you around and took notes on your actions?

Most people would feel uneasy/bothered by that. But are those emotions warranted? If we did not get such emotions, would the same scenario be okay? Or are the emotions a consequence of the true reason why we're against such behavior.

It's also worth noting that the employee following you around is a visible behavior, while being tracked via Wi-Fi mac addresses is much less intrusive.

Re: iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks

#38

Post by shurcooL »

_greim_ wrote: post #31
shurcooL wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm genuinely curious, how does it being a problem for them benefit you? (I'm assuming you're not saying that out of indifferent malice but because you have personal gains, which is normal.) Can you please elaborate on your point?

I think on the general principle of privacy. But also, the idea that the more trackable you are, the more easily manipulated you are by marketers and advertisers. Free markets work better the more consumers are rational. Giving marketers deep psychological and behavioral insight increasingly enables them to circumvent rationality and "hack" consumers in various ways.

Thanks for a constructive and very insightful response.

This definitely seems to be a valid reason why people would be against being tracked. We don't want to be more easily manipulated (through the data that the ones doing tracking are able to acquire) and coerced into buying things we don't want/need (but the ones doing tracking want us to buy).

Would it be accurate to describe it like this: the consumers' interests are to be rational, less easily manipulated and "unhackable", and being tracked is a threat to those interests.

On the other hand, the store owners are trying their best to get their products sold, so their interests are opposite of the consumers, to find ways to sell as many things as possible.

If that's accurate, I find it interesting that there are these underlying "wars" occurring within a single species. In fact, a single person may wake up and go to work one morning, serving in the position of the one doing the "tracking" and fighting against the interests of consumers, then in the evening they may go shopping and end up on the other side, fighting against the interests of the ones doing tracking.

Pretty fascinating.

Re: iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks

#40

Post by nitrogen »

IBM wrote: post #37

It's pretty clear that Apple is positioning themselves in stark contrast to Google, they want to be the privacy/security company. Internet companies with advertising business models are a dime a dozen so that is a real advantage that differentiates Apple.

It's pretty clear that Apple is positioning themselves in stark contrast to Google, they want to be the privacy/security company. Internet companies with advertising business models are a dime a dozen so that is a real advantage that differentiates Apple.

It's difficult to reconcile this claim with their participation in PRISM et. al., previous long-term storage of cell tower locations, ownership of a mobile ad network, and wanton abuse of the patent system to stifle competition.

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