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The boy who stole Half Life 2 source code (2011)

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Re: The boy who stole Half Life 2 source code (2011)

#31

Post by PhantomGremlin »

codexon wrote: post #6
deftnerd wrote: post #2

It's stories like these that's inspired me to start up a new project at oppressed.me. I'm trying to compile a list of hackers and hacktivists that have been imprisoned in order to let the internet easily send them correspondence. I'm also going to ask publishers for donations of older copies of technical books to send them. A lot of hackers are just kids that make a stupid mistake. During their time in jail, their sk…

I don't feel sorry for malware writers. They are not oppressed and deserve what they got. And this guy also stole people's software keys. If they were talented coders, they could've found less destructive ways to make money. But he decided to go the greedy route.

The problem is that this guy was young, relatively speaking, maybe about 20. The headline calls him a "boy", so he was certainly under 21.

By the time I was 21, I certainly wouldn't have done something like what he did. But, just a few years earlier, say at 18, yes, I did stupid things. In his position I probably could have done what he did. At that age many "boys" brains just aren't developed enough to truly understand right and wrong.

I'm not saying they shouldn't be punished. But I am saying they definitely shouldn't be punished harshly. In this case he was lucky to receive two years of probation as punishment. Something like that, or perhaps what we call "community service", is certainly more appropriate than throwing him in adult jail with hardened criminals.

Re: The boy who stole Half Life 2 source code (2011)

#32

Post by spacehome »

onewaystreet wrote: post #26
ahuth wrote: post #4

I'm not condoning breaking into the network and stealing source code, but what financial damage did this cause to Valve? The article repeatedly refers to financial damages, but I'm not sure how that is.

The game was delayed a year because of the hack.

In what way? How could that make sense?

Re: The boy who stole Half Life 2 source code (2011)

#33

Post by FiloSottile »

codexon wrote: post #6
deftnerd wrote: post #2

It's stories like these that's inspired me to start up a new project at oppressed.me. I'm trying to compile a list of hackers and hacktivists that have been imprisoned in order to let the internet easily send them correspondence. I'm also going to ask publishers for donations of older copies of technical books to send them. A lot of hackers are just kids that make a stupid mistake. During their time in jail, their sk…

I don't feel sorry for malware writers. They are not oppressed and deserve what they got. And this guy also stole people's software keys. If they were talented coders, they could've found less destructive ways to make money. But he decided to go the greedy route.

> If they were talented coders, they could've found less destructive ways to make money. But he decided to go the greedy route.

Let me guess: you are a US citizen, or anyway live in a country where developer positions abound. Well, not everyone is. Some people live in small towns where the cool programming positions are adapting invoice management software for small businesses.

Also this was before Freelancer.com, before code.org. And he was a boy, he couldn't just relocate. Also, before the App Store.

This is exactly the curiosity that people who enter the InfoSec world feel, coupled with real skills. Often too much skills and too little to do to start.

Then you stumble upon a IRC channel and a world of challenges opens in front of you.

By the way, he asked Valve to hire him. Maybe he just didn't find "less destructive ways to make money" yet.

Don't judge if people are oppressed (or better, repressed) if you have never been, please, either because at that age YOU had the occasions or guidance, or because you hadn't that curiosity or talent.

Re: The boy who stole Half Life 2 source code (2011)

#35

Post by jberryman »

jabagawee wrote: post #25
ahuth wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously they should've spent the time to secure their network before hand! Also, can't say I buy the hypothetical piracy cost. Does anyone have any examples of other engines copying Source features from the source code?

I reject the argument that Valve had it coming since they didn't take the time to secure their network beforehand. There are almost always going to be holes in the security of any system, especially digital ones (since they have a larger surface area to consider), so blaming the victim of a break-in implies that everyone should just resign themselves to being hacked sooner or later. Valve surely made at least some ef…

> I reject the argument that Valve had it coming since they didn't take the time to secure their network beforehand.

I think the suggestion was that the time taken to secure their networks shouldn't be counted as "damages", just something that needed to be done regardless.

Re: The boy who stole Half Life 2 source code (2011)

#36

Post by ahuth »

jabagawee wrote: post #25
ahuth wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously they should've spent the time to secure their network before hand! Also, can't say I buy the hypothetical piracy cost. Does anyone have any examples of other engines copying Source features from the source code?

I reject the argument that Valve had it coming since they didn't take the time to secure their network beforehand. There are almost always going to be holes in the security of any system, especially digital ones (since they have a larger surface area to consider), so blaming the victim of a break-in implies that everyone should just resign themselves to being hacked sooner or later. Valve surely made at least some ef…

I reject that I said they had it coming.

My point is that re-securing their network does not seems like a financial damage to me. If they had known about their vulnerability beforehand, I'm sure they would've spent the time and money to fix it then.

Plus it's something they needed to do anyway.

Re: The boy who stole Half Life 2 source code (2011)

#37

Post by ahuth »

onewaystreet wrote: post #28
ahuth wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously they should've spent the time to secure their network before hand! Also, can't say I buy the hypothetical piracy cost. Does anyone have any examples of other engines copying Source features from the source code?

The Half-Life 2 source would have been an incredible learning tool for anyone interested in engine design at the time. That knowledge is their competitive advantage.

This I can start to understand/buy. Good point

Re: The boy who stole Half Life 2 source code (2011)

#38

Post by hueving »

pandatigox wrote: post #18
codexon wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't feel sorry for malware writers. They are not oppressed and deserve what they got. And this guy also stole people's software keys. If they were talented coders, they could've found less destructive ways to make money. But he decided to go the greedy route.

Some of the people behind bars are because they did something that was morally right but condoned by the government. While I can't argue for the guy mentioned in the article, people like Bradley Manning are wasting away their lives. Do you really don't want to help these victims?

How was what Chelsea Manning did morally right? Leaking that much information that could put other peoples' lives at risk isn't exactly morally right.

Re: The boy who stole Half Life 2 source code (2011)

#39

Post by ahuth »

balls187 wrote: post #34
spacehome wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what way? How could that make sense?

The HL2 team rewrote major portions of the Source Engine in response to the hack.

Why would the leak cause major portions of the engine to need to be rewritten?

Seems more likely that it was a convenient excuse.

Re: The boy who stole Half Life 2 source code (2011)

#40

Post by flomo »

ArcticCelt wrote: post #24
staunch wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was no financial loss. The surrounding press attention may have even helped sales. I still remember the news at the time a decade later. The real cost is the ordeal he put the people at Valve through.

I also think that Valve used him a bit as convenient scapegoat to explain why the release of the game was pushed back another year.

Probably. Background: Half-Life 2 was contending with Duke Nukem Forever for the greatest vaporware title ever, when Valve released gameplay footage and a definite release date. The half-done state of leaked game and the subsequent one year delay caused people to think it might never ship.

Of course, when the game finally came out to rave reviews, all was forgiven.

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