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Android 4.5: End of Road?

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Re: Android 4.5: End of Road?

#31

Post by LowDog »

daleharvey wrote: post #26
Goldenromeo wrote: post #14

Firefox OS might be a viable options for low end phones, and For high end phones Ubuntu OS might be worth it as well.

The nice thing about something that works well on low end phones, it works awesome on high end phones :) Although its not necessarily something you get for free, since we havent optimised for higher end devices you can get to a point where you have too many active apps open and chew battery, there are probably other places it can improve, but it does perform nicely on higher end devices.

I recently bought a Firefox OS device as my first smartphone and I'm really looking forward to the future of this OS. However, I have been plagued with a number of problems that make really simple tasks incredibly complicated, and I hope you guys are paying attention to bug reports because there are some major issues that have remained unaddressed for an extremely long time.

In any case, an open OS is a necessity and I'm glad that I didn't have to choose between iOS, Android, and WP for my first smartphone. After some major bugs have been addressed, I look forward to being able to buy a high end device on which I can install Firefox OS. I sincerely hope Mozilla continues to give the project a lot of attention and doesn't relegate it to Thunderbird status.

Re: Android 4.5: End of Road?

#32

Post by king_jester »

This has been coming for quite some time. Each new version of the 4.x line had something to improve security for the average user, usually in the form of restricting an API access or changing filesystem rules.

The rules revolving around /system are a huge security issue, as you can take any permission you wish without having to inform the user. Malware authors take advantage of this.

Unfortunately su binaries install to this location for the same reason. Devices with easy to unlock bootloaders (e.g. Nexus line) or an official program to unlock the bootloader (e.g. Morotola Bootloader Unlock program) won't have much of an issue, installing alternate recovery isn't terrible on those devices. The more troubling aspect is those vendors and carriers that offer no such thing. Those vendors/carriers view the phone as their property on loan to you and that they should retain control, for whatever reason. For 90% of users, this doesn't matter, they don't bother to do anything that requires root. But the other 10% are finding their options squeezed unless they buy from specific vendors and sources.

Re: Android 4.5: End of Road?

#33

Post by pyre »

iamben wrote: post #17
Goldenromeo wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you want ads? Because that is his we get the horrible ads On our favorite apps.

Do you think that the devs that put hard work and time into building your 'favorite apps' don't deserve to be compensated?

The "hard-work" that it took to create the fart app? Or the one that just provides you with a button to turn on your phone's flash LED? Adding advertisements to these things is just a money-grab (especially putting ads in apps targeted at children).

If I personally created such an app, I would have issues trying to morally justify putting ads in it.

Re: Android 4.5: End of Road?

#34

Post by dmix »

izacus wrote: post #11

Note that the title is misleading: Android ALWAYS had a read-only /system partition. Now they're adding a slew of SELinux policies which also enforce read-only access to /system partition. These are still applied if you remount it rw, which means that in the future users will have to modify SELinux policy to write while the OS is running. Recovery (which is tasked with updates) will keep its write ability. Also all a…

For people who don't use root apps this is actually good news. Strict SELinux policies are going to help boost Android security significantly. Malware devs are having a field day on Android and root access only makes it easier for them.

Re: Android 4.5: End of Road?

#35

Post by personZ »

pyre wrote: post #33
iamben wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think that the devs that put hard work and time into building your 'favorite apps' don't deserve to be compensated?

The "hard-work" that it took to create the fart app? Or the one that just provides you with a button to turn on your phone's flash LED? Adding advertisements to these things is just a money-grab ( especially putting ads in apps targeted at children). If I personally created such an app, I would have issues trying to morally justify putting ads in it.

If I personally created such an app

Then personally create those apps. Problem solved, no? If, however, you are installing advertiser supported apps and then trying to justify it by declaring its simplicity, you have absolutely no moral ground to stand on. You are just another thief making justifications.

Re: Android 4.5: End of Road?

#36

Post by pyre »

personZ wrote: post #35
pyre wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "hard-work" that it took to create the fart app? Or the one that just provides you with a button to turn on your phone's flash LED? Adding advertisements to these things is just a money-grab ( especially putting ads in apps targeted at children). If I personally created such an app, I would have issues trying to morally justify putting ads in it.

If I personally created such an app Then personally create those apps. Problem solved, no? If, however, you are installing advertiser supported apps and then trying to justify it by declaring its simplicity, you have absolutely no moral ground to stand on. You are just another thief making justifications.

You're making general assumptions about me not supported by the post that I made:

> You are just another thief making justifications.

I posted an objection to the "hard work / starving developer" statement, and now I'm apparently a thief for even suggesting that I find advertisements in those apps to be morally objectionable.

I personally do not own an Android phone. Am I a thief for suggesting that I dislike people creating these 'simple' apps and slapping them full of ads?

You also seem to think that people are not allow to speak their mind, which is an attitude that I do have moral objections to:

> Then personally create those apps. Problem solved, no?

What about when the App is full of ads (e.g. "Your phone is full of virus! Download App to clean it here!") that are meant to trick the user into clicking them? Is that also morally defensible because someone "worked hard" on it?

Re: Android 4.5: End of Road?

#37

Post by whoopdedo »

JelteF wrote: post #25
gergles wrote: post #24

All of the "no big deal" comments are really startling to me. If you bought a desktop PC where you couldn't write anything to the hard drive outside of your one allowed directory without voiding the warranty, you'd take some serious issue with that. Is "but mobile!!!" an OK justification for taking away control over hardware that people own?

No, security is. On any normal Linux pc only the root user has rw rights on the system partition.

And the root user is the owner of the computer. This is saying that if you buy an Android device you are not granted the privilege of owning the device.

The mindset of mobile developers is to treat the end user as an adversary. You're not meant to control your device beyond what the gatekeepers of the walled garden want you to do. They want to operate by the television model where there are a privileged few producers delivering content to the masses. It's the antithesis to the internet model of an information economy where anyone can communicate with anyone else and not need a middle-man regulating their conversation.

Re: Android 4.5: End of Road?

#38

Post by guelo »

dmix wrote: post #34
izacus wrote: post #11

Note that the title is misleading: Android ALWAYS had a read-only /system partition. Now they're adding a slew of SELinux policies which also enforce read-only access to /system partition. These are still applied if you remount it rw, which means that in the future users will have to modify SELinux policy to write while the OS is running. Recovery (which is tasked with updates) will keep its write ability. Also all a…

For people who don't use root apps this is actually good news. Strict SELinux policies are going to help boost Android security significantly. Malware devs are having a field day on Android and root access only makes it easier for them.

Bullshit. The massive holes in Android security are caused by the inept app permissions system. Restricting hackers that jump through hoops to get access to their file system even more is not going to stop the thousands of apps that spam all your contacts, etc.

Re: Android 4.5: End of Road?

#39

Post by guelo »

gergles wrote: post #24

All of the "no big deal" comments are really startling to me. If you bought a desktop PC where you couldn't write anything to the hard drive outside of your one allowed directory without voiding the warranty, you'd take some serious issue with that. Is "but mobile!!!" an OK justification for taking away control over hardware that people own?

Everyone wants to build an ipad these days. General computing will be harder and harder on commodity hardware.

Re: Android 4.5: End of Road?

#40

Post by dmix »

guelo wrote: post #38
dmix wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For people who don't use root apps this is actually good news. Strict SELinux policies are going to help boost Android security significantly. Malware devs are having a field day on Android and root access only makes it easier for them.

Bullshit. The massive holes in Android security are caused by the inept app permissions system. Restricting hackers that jump through hoops to get access to their file system even more is not going to stop the thousands of apps that spam all your contacts, etc.

Rootkits can cause way more damage than permission abuse. Spamming your contacts is nothing compared to keylogging your bank information or snatching 2FA notifications. App permissions also need to be improved but the former is higher priority IMO. ACL has existed in computer systems forever for a good reason. It's pointless if its not properly enforced via MAC.
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