Don’t Believe Anyone Who Tells You Learning To Code Is Easy • Hacker News Board

Re: Don’t Believe Anyone Who Tells You Learning To Code Is Easy

#31

Post by anishkothari » Sun, May 25, 2014, 4:40 AM UTC

brettgoulder wrote: post #26

If you are considering a career as a web engineer, I think the first thing you need to ask yourself, do you enjoy tying and untying knots over and over again. If you do, you probably have the right stuff to be a really good programmer.

I've also heard web programming described as plumbing.

I wish I knew this before I started my Master's degree in IT. Programming is frustrating if you don't have an engineering background... you keep running into new problems and people telling you what you could do better.

Re: Don’t Believe Anyone Who Tells You Learning To Code Is Easy

#32

Post by fred_durst » Sun, May 25, 2014, 4:41 AM UTC

I've been programming for maybe too long now, but likely not nearly as long as the higher level advanced developers, but still the idea that people copy & paste code from Google/SO is horrifying. You are really just going to work on some real life project and just blindly copy some random crap you found online without even knowing what it does completely? Yikes.

Re: Don’t Believe Anyone Who Tells You Learning To Code Is Easy

#33

Post by wturner » Sun, May 25, 2014, 4:43 AM UTC

At the college I use to work at they had a sound arts program and they still do. They decided to change this a bit and make a foray into the 'cool' world of programming. Instead of hiring software engineers to design the course they let the previous "sound recording" course directors and a few lab instructors attempt to write the program . All 4 or so of those people had never done any real programming with the exception of one, who as far as I know has never been in a professional programming or software development environment. In short he did some SuperCollider stuff as a personal hobby and was good at teaching MaxMSP. However, this is a different beast than teaching python or IOS which is what they intended. Especially at it pertains to audio.

Eventually they wrote a course that included Python.

I assume the instructors realized what they had bitten off as last I looked Python is no longer on the official curriculum. This story actually gets much worse as they wanted to do Objective C but they originally hired a former instructor who was a DJ to learn and teach it. That guy didn't show up for work one day ..... and never did again.

Re: Don’t Believe Anyone Who Tells You Learning To Code Is Easy

#34

Post by krisgenre » Sun, May 25, 2014, 4:46 AM UTC

enraged_camel wrote: post #21

ef4 wrote: post #7

> They don’t tell you that a lot of programming skill is about developing a knack for asking the right questions on Google and knowing which code is best to copy-paste. And they don’t let you in on a big secret: that there is no mastery, there is no final level. The anxiety of feeling lost and stupid is not something you learn to conquer, but something you learn to live with. Just because you haven't achieved mastery…

On the other hand, most masters will not call themselves that, and will resist being labeled as such. Because ironically, true mastery can only be achieved through humility.

No, I don't think so. There are many masters in music who can be quite arrogant, don't see why it can't be applied to programming. Also, those people who don't call themselves 'masters' may not do so for the sake of their public image. Once you start working with them you'll know what they really think.

Re: Don’t Believe Anyone Who Tells You Learning To Code Is Easy

#35

Post by minikomi » Sun, May 25, 2014, 4:49 AM UTC

krisgenre wrote: post #29

Learning to code is actually easy. What's difficult is, to master it.

I would almost say.. Learning how to code is easy, learning what to code is hard.

Re: Don’t Believe Anyone Who Tells You Learning To Code Is Easy

#36

Post by gcv » Sun, May 25, 2014, 4:53 AM UTC

This is misleading. Learning to "code" or do the work horrifically called "software engineering" is definitely a huge pain in the ass. It's all about half-working fragile dependencies and outdated documentation. Don't do web programming. Don't do iOS. You can try it after you have used good tools first.

Instead, start by learning about computational processes. Use Racket — it's a stable, excellent environment. Read SICP or at least HtDP. You'll have fun. It's challenging, because it requires an adjustment to the way you think, but it is not particularly hard.

Re: Don’t Believe Anyone Who Tells You Learning To Code Is Easy

#37

Post by jimbokun » Sun, May 25, 2014, 4:53 AM UTC

gradys wrote: post #15

>They don’t tell you that a lot of programming skill is about developing a knack for asking the right questions on Google and knowing which code is best to copy-paste" This is a misleading simplification. I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir here, but I'm going to elaborate anyway. Learning to program isn't fundamentally about learning what text to type in to a box somewhere. It's about learning to think computational…

"Learning to program isn't fundamentally about learning what text to type in to a box somewhere. It's about learning to think computationally."

But learning how to start programming isn't about that at all, even a little bit.

Writing your first program is learning what a text editor is (no, it's not quite the same as a word processor), maybe learning about the command line interface on your computer for the first time, learning about the various dependencies between the tools and libraries you need to install to get started. There is Googling and discovering tutorials that are out of date or have mistakes in them, and figuring out what to do then.

Re: Don’t Believe Anyone Who Tells You Learning To Code Is Easy

#38

Post by jimbokun » Sun, May 25, 2014, 5:00 AM UTC

marincounty wrote: post #14

I found the free cs50 courses at Harvard helpful. I honestly didn't have the patience to sit through the videos, but I listened to the mp3's while exercising. All the buzz words started to make sense. I don't think I'll ever become a Programmer--just don't have the drive, but I can put up websites--half ass, but they are improving. Yea, I know a bit about ROR, and Django, but would never call myself a Programer, or a…

I really feel like, relative to many other fields, programmers sincerely their field to be a meritocracy. They don't always live up to the ideal. For example, a lot of programming interviews used to heavily feature mathematical riddles and brain teasers. More recently this has come to be considered a bad way to evaluate potential programmers, but at least the intent was trying to find out something about the candidate's intelligence, and not just trying to make a personality fit or something.

Re: Don’t Believe Anyone Who Tells You Learning To Code Is Easy

#39

Post by oldspiceman » Sun, May 25, 2014, 5:00 AM UTC

The only useful class I took in university was first year programming.

I felt like god when I first wrote an output stream to a file. I couldn't believe it was possible. Most people didn't have those kind of feelings. I think that's the difference. You're either captivated or you're not.

Re: Don’t Believe Anyone Who Tells You Learning To Code Is Easy

#40

Post by greenyoda » Sun, May 25, 2014, 5:03 AM UTC

krisgenre wrote: post #29

Learning to code is actually easy. What's difficult is, to master it.

Exactly. To expand on what you said:

Learning to code is easy, just as learning to write English prose is easy - kids routinely do both of these things. However, learning to be a professional software developer or a commercially successful novelist or journalist is very different from learning to code or learning to write - for most people, it requires hard work, many years of experience and learning from lots of mistakes.