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Questions for Donald Knuth

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Re: Questions for Donald Knuth

#31

Post by kcorbitt »

justin66 wrote: post #29

The unpopularity and inherent goofiness of literate programming, and the way Knuth always mentions it in interviews, feels like a sort of elephant in the room whenever a new interview appears.

The closest thing I've seen to literate programming "in the wild" is the ipython notebook concept, which encourages you to intersperse your code with explanatory text to give it context and structure (eg http://nbviewer.ipython.org/github/corbt/city-weather/blob/m...). I don't think it's the right fit for all (or even most) programming, but I like it for that class of programming because often a reader is more interested in why you chose to do what you're doing, rather than what the code actually does.

Re: Questions for Donald Knuth

#32

Post by justin66 »

kcorbitt wrote: post #31
justin66 wrote: post #29

The unpopularity and inherent goofiness of literate programming, and the way Knuth always mentions it in interviews, feels like a sort of elephant in the room whenever a new interview appears.

The closest thing I've seen to literate programming "in the wild" is the ipython notebook concept, which encourages you to intersperse your code with explanatory text to give it context and structure (eg http://nbviewer.ipython.org/github/corbt/city-weather/blob/m... ). I don't think it's the right fit for all (or even most) programming, but I like it for that class of programming because often a reader is more inter…

The only example of actual literate programming with CWEB I've seen in the wild - aside from TeX, whose source code I've actually not read - is Adam Langley's extracted crit-bit trie code, taken from DJB's C stuff: https://github.com/agl/critbit

Re: Questions for Donald Knuth

#33

Post by burntsushi »

kcorbitt wrote: post #31
justin66 wrote: post #29

The unpopularity and inherent goofiness of literate programming, and the way Knuth always mentions it in interviews, feels like a sort of elephant in the room whenever a new interview appears.

The closest thing I've seen to literate programming "in the wild" is the ipython notebook concept, which encourages you to intersperse your code with explanatory text to give it context and structure (eg http://nbviewer.ipython.org/github/corbt/city-weather/blob/m... ). I don't think it's the right fit for all (or even most) programming, but I like it for that class of programming because often a reader is more inter…

I always understood literate programming as a tool for teaching and not as a tool for writing software.

As I've written more and more about code I wrote, I've found myself inventing weird ways of making sure the code samples are compilable, runnable and correct. I've done it enough that now I'm considering using a literate programming tool next time.

(To be clear, I'm not referring to traditional API documentation with examples. There exist good tools for testing examples without resorting full-hog to literate programming. I am referring to more general prose whose aim is less specific than documenting an API.)

Re: Questions for Donald Knuth

#34

Post by Tomte »

kcorbitt wrote: post #31
justin66 wrote: post #29

The unpopularity and inherent goofiness of literate programming, and the way Knuth always mentions it in interviews, feels like a sort of elephant in the room whenever a new interview appears.

The closest thing I've seen to literate programming "in the wild" is the ipython notebook concept, which encourages you to intersperse your code with explanatory text to give it context and structure (eg http://nbviewer.ipython.org/github/corbt/city-weather/blob/m... ). I don't think it's the right fit for all (or even most) programming, but I like it for that class of programming because often a reader is more inter…

Mathematica or Maple worksheets, maybe?

I haven't really used either, but they seem to go a bit in that direction. Although they are strictly sequential, I guess, so maybe not.

Re: Questions for Donald Knuth

#35

Post by Tomte »

aeberbach wrote: post #15

In the Q&A Knuth mentions TAOCP conversion to ebook several times - I did a quick search and found only millions of pirate sites. Does anyone know the legitimate source where the ebook can be bought? Informit seemed likely but there are only two digital volumes available there. (edit: there is a note saying "as they become available". I guess TAOCP is only partially portable so far, more to come.) (brag: I got a deci…

My experience with bug reports to Knuth were mixed, although number one obviously was most important to me.

I got $2.56 for an error in content in one of his books. Actually the very first word in the very first sentence on the very first page (well, Arabic 1) was wrong. At least nobody can claim that he didn't get that far!

I got another $0.32 for a bug report which he actually demonstrated to be invalid, though he counted it as some kind of input or improvement. Oh, and he threw in a T-Shirt with the MMIX instruction set!

The third bug report was turned down without explanation (I think he actually replied "sorry, but no cigar").

The fourth bug report was also turned down and I even felt a bit insulted: his MMIX book says on the back cover that all programs are in the public domain, even though they all carry copyright notices with restrictions.

Knuth accused me quite harshly (IMO) to be some kind of Stallman fan talking nonsense about licenses and did not acknowledge the bug.

Re: Questions for Donald Knuth

#36

Post by Tomte »

redshirtrob wrote: post #13

I've been to couple of Donald Knuth's Christmas Tree Lectures. While he was signing my copy of 'TAOCP Volume 1', I asked him if he thought anyone in the world had read all of TAOCP, himself excluded. I didn't clarify, but he seemed to assume (correctly) that by 'read' I meant 'read and comprehended.' His reply was yes, but not many. He mentioned a guy in Germany who goes over his books again and again looking for err…

That's probably the guy he mentioned in another interview: the one who's cashing one cheque every year.

Re: Questions for Donald Knuth

#37

Post by pavpanchekha »

jbapple wrote: post #23

This part confused me: "My job is to go beyond correctness, to an analysis of such things as the program's running time: I write down a recurrence, say, which is supposed to represent the average number of comparisons made by that program on random input data. I'm 100% sure that my recurrence correctly describes the program's performance, and all of my colleagues agree with me that the recurrence is "obviously" valid…

I think there is a bit of a disconnect here between the old guard of verification work and the avant-garde. Partly this is a difference of tools and terminology—current work in verification has a type-theory feel, and Floyd-style axiomatic semantics are out of vogue. It is also the role of old professors to slowly lose currency with the cutting edge of a field. I wouldn't think too much of Knuth's comments.

Re: Questions for Donald Knuth

#38

Post by ssprang »

Tomte wrote: post #35
aeberbach wrote: post #15

In the Q&A Knuth mentions TAOCP conversion to ebook several times - I did a quick search and found only millions of pirate sites. Does anyone know the legitimate source where the ebook can be bought? Informit seemed likely but there are only two digital volumes available there. (edit: there is a note saying "as they become available". I guess TAOCP is only partially portable so far, more to come.) (brag: I got a deci…

My experience with bug reports to Knuth were mixed, although number one obviously was most important to me. I got $2.56 for an error in content in one of his books. Actually the very first word in the very first sentence on the very first page (well, Arabic 1) was wrong. At least nobody can claim that he didn't get that far! I got another $0.32 for a bug report which he actually demonstrated to be invalid, though he…

> Knuth accused me quite harshly (IMO) to be some kind of Stallman fan talking nonsense about licenses and did not acknowledge the bug.

Strange. Knuth appears to be a significant GNU supporter: http://www.gnu.org/thankgnus/2014supporters.html

Re: Questions for Donald Knuth

#39

Post by corysama »

justin66 wrote: post #29

The unpopularity and inherent goofiness of literate programming, and the way Knuth always mentions it in interviews, feels like a sort of elephant in the room whenever a new interview appears.

A literate program, Physically Based Rendering, recently became the first book to win an Academy Award for it's technical contributions to the film industry. In the acceptance speech, the writers thanked Knuth for the concept. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7d9juPsv1QU

The book can be compiled into the production-quality renderer http://pbrt.org/

Re: Questions for Donald Knuth

#40

Post by Tomte »

ssprang wrote: post #38
Tomte wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experience with bug reports to Knuth were mixed, although number one obviously was most important to me. I got $2.56 for an error in content in one of his books. Actually the very first word in the very first sentence on the very first page (well, Arabic 1) was wrong. At least nobody can claim that he didn't get that far! I got another $0.32 for a bug report which he actually demonstrated to be invalid, though he…

> Knuth accused me quite harshly (IMO) to be some kind of Stallman fan talking nonsense about licenses and did not acknowledge the bug. Strange. Knuth appears to be a significant GNU supporter: http://www.gnu.org/thankgnus/2014supporters.html

I guess he had a bad day or whatever. Or maybe I read too much into what he wrote.
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