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I’m a Man and I Write Code

wewritecode.com

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Re: I’m a Man and I Write Code

#31

Post by sirseal »

eli wrote: post #9
sirseal wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ends don't justify the means: having a sexist practice to combat sexism is using the wrong means.

I understand where you're coming from, but I just don't think PyLadies and Women Who Code are sexist. It's certainly not the same as the institutional sexism in the tech industry.

I should have been more precise. I agree with you that PyLadies and Women Who Code should not be labeled as sexist organizations. There's a distinct difference between targeting a group of people based upon their sex and baring a group of people from an activity on the basis of sex. The two organizations you mention target software engineers who are women and chip away at the institutionalized sexism in the industry. On the other hand, having a qutota is a discriminatory policy. By definition, a quota is saying, "we're not accepting you because you are X." In this case, X is "a man." It's a subtle difference, but at the end of the day, sexism is discrimination on the basis of sex. Thus any practice that discriminates on the basis of sex is sexist.

Re: I’m a Man and I Write Code

#32

Post by eli »

metaphorm wrote: post #20
roywiggins wrote: post #16

With a long history of having 30+ speakers at our events, the idea was proposed that we enforce a 1:1 ratio of men and women for our speakers. Yes, finding 15 qualified women is basically impossible, so why even try? /s

you missed the point. the problem is more like this: 1. Find the 30 best speakers that are available and can speak to a relevant/interesting topic to your event. 2. How many of them are men? How many are women? 3. If there are less than 15 women then it means that whatever metric you used to pick "best" didn't select a 1:1 ratio. Now you have to decide which do you consider more important, your "best" metric or 1:1 g…

Part of the reason there weren't more women speakers in the first place is because of fundamentally unfair practices prior to their applying to speak. The system is already unfair. The question is, what do you as a forum organizer do about it?

Re: I’m a Man and I Write Code

#33

Post by zysh »

I just want to throw my two cents in as a (very) young woman in college that aspires to become a Software Engineer.

I'm very glad that groups like PyLadies and Women Who Code exist. Unfortunately I'm pretty terrified of meeting men that are significantly more experienced than myself in the industry when it comes to software. I'm terrified of coming off as clueless or air headed. On top of that, the men I have met in the industry are extremely intimidating. I've already had multiple experiences at University where a male peer has looked down at me due to my gender.

This is probably just a simple self confidence issue since I'm young however my point is groups that are women centric are a lot easier to relate to for someone like myself. I love the prospects of meeting other women that can give emotional and professional advice while sharing their work experiences with me. It's much easier to relate to and I'm sure networking with other women makes it easier to transition into the industry from school. Just my two cents.

Re: I’m a Man and I Write Code

#35

Post by bdg »

droob wrote: post #2

Quotas don't necessarily fix things _now_ -- they create a new normal for the next generation.

No.

Quotas are numbers that are set and measured. They are not a means for changing hearts and minds, or actually making motion towards a goal.

The quota doesn't even need to reflect the goal, it's just a number, and in the case of this gender equality we're not even scrutinizing if it is meaningful. This is the same metric frat bros use to make sure they don't have sausage parties, why is it good here too? Does a 1:1 ration equate to unblocked opportunity? If so, what does the high ratio of male contributors to wikipedia mean?

Re: I’m a Man and I Write Code

#38

Post by comrh »

> "Some would say I’ve won the genetic lottery. Others would say I’ve had an easy life. After 15 years in the industry, I would say I’ve worked my ass off to get where I am today."

And you completely missed the point of the concept of privilege.

Re: I’m a Man and I Write Code

#40

Post by icebraining »

majika wrote: post #18
DavidWoof wrote: post #5

Just an idea. If you want to write a serious article on the subject of women in tech, no matter what your views are, you're probably better off not putting a "no girls allowed" graphic on top, no matter how "funny" or "ironic" you may think it is.

So, it's alright to actually run "no boys allowed" schools, dinners and programs in tech, but it's not OK to ironically put a "no girls allowed" image in a blog post? Do you realize that this double standard is harmful for everyone?

But is it? I mean, empirically?
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