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Why You Shouldn't Say It's Easy When Teaching

karissamck.com

31–40 of 62 posts

Re: Why You Shouldn't Say It's Easy When Teaching

#31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree that you can't reasonably implement a complex subject from first principles every time you want to talk about something, I think the core of the complaint was more in frequently calling something trivial when addressing a room full of students with varying ability. Trivial is, I suspect, best expressed in terms of inferential distance that the student has to cover. Education naturally works on the borde…

I think you interpret too much into this question. If you do a proof, at some point you have to say something. Either "it's trivial" or "it's obvious" or "it is known" or whatever. Otherwise, how would you stop expanding the steps of the proof? I also don't think a university course has to hold every students hand. For example if you offer Advanced Calculus or whatever, it is fair to expect students to know that 2+2=…

> I think you interpret too much into this question. If you do a proof, at some point you have to say something. Either "it's trivial" or "it's obvious" or "it is known" or whatever. Otherwise, how would you stop expanding the steps of the proof?

Just stop when you've got as deep as you care to go. I don't see the necessity to say anything there. If it is trivial, then it's not going to be challenged because everyone will know that they'd lose, and if it's not trivial and it is challenged, then you've identified that at least one of you's going to learn something in the exchange.

> I also don't think a university course has to hold every students hand. For example if you offer Advanced Calculus or whatever, it is fair to expect students to know that 2+2=4. If some step is too far from a students known concepts, they can either invest extra time trying to catch up (Google is your friend), or they can switch courses.

There's failure on both sides if students are being entered for a course that's significantly beyond their ability in that sense.

On the one hand, the student needs to try if they expect to get anything out of it, and persistent focused effort should have equipped them for most of what they can reasonably expect to run up against. On the other hand, the college shouldn't be taking people on who are manifestly unsuited to the subject they're being admitted to.

Perhaps in first year, that's understandable. Testing what people know for admittance, especially given the pitiful standard of secondary education and testing, is a non-trivial task. However, by the time you're getting into second year, if the university has passed them, and they're under-equipped for the second year... well, why the ever loving spaghetti monster did you pass them from first year?

I think we'd probably both agree that both parties in education need to make reasonable effort. If the student isn't willing to try, then there's nothing that can be done. If the college isn't putting its best foot forwards, then the student may as well just be paying for the right to sit the exam for all the value the college is providing.

Re: Why You Shouldn't Say It's Easy When Teaching

#32
This is a pet peeve of mine. I have a couple colleagues that use this too often. It's dismissive and rude, it presents to the questioner the impression that you perceive them as ignorant and stupid.

The fact is, much of software development is really the application of arcane processes, commands and procedures to solve problems. New people don't know your particular process or tool suite. I worked in an office that used Rational Synergy and Doors. When I was new I had no clue how to use these properly. After some experience they became easy, but going to a colleague and being told "that's easy, just X" was rarely helpful, because it turned out that X was actually A, B, C and D. Admittedly, sometimes A and B were just "click on the options menu", "click on the ", but finding C and D required knowing that.

These sorts of things are, in fact, easy, but they're still arcane enough that when you provide an answer it should be a complete answer. Anything less will result in the questioner being unable to complete the task and feeling like an idiot, possibly being too embarrassed to go back and ask a followup because you told them "it's easy". If, instead, you told them "Oh, that's X, you need to do C and D", you've not poisoned them with "just" and "easy". If they don't know how to do C then they can come back to you and you can say, "Oh, you need to do A and B, then C is the third option down in that tab."

Re: Why You Shouldn't Say It's Easy When Teaching

#33
post #16

This is also a problem in academia too. Very often I read papers that say that proofs are trivial, that we can easily get from one equation to another through algebra or that solving an equation is easy. It's something I try to avoid, instead I use "straight forward", which I think implies to the reader that this road has been travelled before but that it's still ok to ask questions because they haven't travelled it…

"Straightforward" is a great term.

Something I'd like to see in whatever replaces Elsevier & Friends is a community markup tool for all papers. Wherever a step has been omitted the community can step in and add a side note explaining and discussing the steps. This would have three huge benefits:

* Easier for neophytes to learn a paper's domain and assumed knowledge.

* Ready-made useful homework assignments for advanced undergrads and grad students: "Fill in the details of this paper."

* Ongoing "reviewing" of papers, leading to more corrected errors.

Re: Why You Shouldn't Say It's Easy When Teaching

#34
post #27

“Just ssh into the box”… I get what the OP is saying, but sometimes, the word " just " is justified. It is simply a command, an invocation of a program that is non-trivial itself, but the use of which has been made easy for laypersons...and by laypersons, I mean people who don't study the SSH protocol. And I think it's important to tell people that things like "just ssh into..." are easy ...it's not the action that i…

Imagine this scenario, you're teaching CS 1 at your college. Your system for submitting assignments is to have students use a git repo and push it to a remote repository on your servers. You could tell them, "Just clone this remote repository when you start working on the assignment." But that's unhelpful, and the word "just" implies that they should already know how to do it. If that's your statement on day 1, you're hurting many of your students. Instead it should be something like, "We use Git for assignment submissions, it is a version control system. Here's where you can learn more about it. Assignment 1 is posted on the website and will walk you through using git to submit the assignment. The full procedure is also available here along with some cheat sheets. Here's our CS 1 material of the day." The assumption that students or new employees know the idiosyncratic processes and tools of your school, class or organization does what assumptions are prone to do, someone is going to come out looking like an ass. It may be the new person when they get frustrated, or the experienced person when it turns out "easy" is really 20 different steps on 3 or 4 different systems.

Re: Why You Shouldn't Say It's Easy When Teaching

#36
In my experience both as a learner and as a teacher in a variety of settings from teaching upper-undergrad level science courses to whitewater kayaking, the 'easy' vs 'hard' distinction is quite important on two fronts:

1) How easy/hard things are to learn or do the first time, or the first couple of times, or whatever.

2) How easy/hard things are to do even when you know what you are doing.

Very many tasks are easy or hard w/r/t (2), and are often referred to this way by the teacher. This may be quite different than whether they are easy w/r/t (1). As a student, it's important to use context to determine if an 'easy' task is supposed to be an easy (1), an easy (2) or both. As a teacher, it's critical to be clear about this.

If something is an easy (2), it may be a hard (1), because it's abstract, poorly explained, one has improper expectations or training, or it's just plain tricky. I think this is what the article is referring to.

In this scenario (easy (2), hard (1)), it's important to describe the task as such: If it keeps being hard for the learner to do, it is a good indication that the approach is wrong, and he or she needs to step back and evaluate things, seek more help, etc. Rolling a kayak is like this. It doesn't require a lot of physical effort to do, just proper technique; so if the kayaker is using a lot of strength and it's still failing, s/he needs to work more on being smooth, keeping his/her head down, and so forth.

Contrast this to something that is a hard (2): If a large amount of effort is being expended, this isn't an indication that things are on the wrong track. And it may be that if it seems really easy, then something is actually wrong.

Re: Why You Shouldn't Say It's Easy When Teaching

#37
post #3

Good god, if only mathematics professors would learn this. If I hear the word 'trivial' one more time I swear I'm going to scream.

I know where you are coming from... but I have started interpreting the word "trivial" (and I don't mean the math meaning of it, e.g. "empty set is a trivial solution") to be a canary of sorts. Once you encounter it and the statement that is supposed to be "trivial" isn't, that means you should backtrack and figure out what insight you are missing to make that statement trivial.

Of course, this kind of depends on the level of the author - some authors don't fully manage to put themselves in the shoes of the reader and take too much knowledge and experience for granted.

Re: Why You Shouldn't Say It's Easy When Teaching

#38
post #6

I think the author fails to realize whether saying 'easy' is okay or not really depends on what background your audiences have. For example, in the math class I find the professor saying 'it is trivial to get B from A' is quite okay if the proof of that deduction is something the students have learnt in the lower-level classes. I don't know another way to skip the easy proof without saying it is easy. If you know how…

One of my most frustrating experiences in school was a math class with a textbook which would stop explaining examples halfway through because "the rest of this problem is trivial" or so it could be "an exercise for the reader".

That definition of trivial is not the one in regular usage.

> A common joke in the mathematical community is to say that "trivial" is synonymous with "proved" — that is, any theorem can be considered "trivial" once it is known to be true. Another joke concerns two mathematicians who are discussing a theorem; the first mathematician says that the theorem is "trivial". In response to the other's request for an explanation, he then proceeds with twenty minutes of exposition. At the end of the explanation, the second mathematician agrees that the theorem is trivial. These jokes point out the subjectivity of judgments about triviality.

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triviality_(mathematics)

Trivial doesn't mean easy. Just that it has been shown before or that new information won't be derived in the proof.

Re: Why You Shouldn't Say It's Easy When Teaching

#39
Strongly disagree. When it is honest, I find calling something "easy" is a great way to set the bar for the reader.

Regardless of the subject, If I am blown away by something labelled as "easy", it is most likely one of these two:

1) I thought I got it but I didn't 2) I don't have enough background to understand it

"This is easy" is the nice, red sign that is basically telling me "don't go further until you understood this" - and I'm quite happy to stumble upon it. Yeah, it usually means more research and thinking, but it is the only way for you to know that you actually mastered the topic, when it will eventually look, well, kinda easy indeed.

Re: Why You Shouldn't Say It's Easy When Teaching

#40
This seems to me like a pretty random communication pattern to jump on, and not at all likely to be universally 'right'. Maybe it's a personal issue for the author, and others.

I've been teaching computer science to laypeople for decades, all the while saying it's easy. I feel confident in saying that, because I feel confident that I can make it easy. Explaining complicated topics in simple terms is one of my favorite things.

For myself, anytime I have to go to someone at work and have them explain a system that makes no sense to me, if they start with "oh it's simple, here..." I'm fairly sure my reaction is "Good! Please show me the simplicity!"

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