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Fighting Cargo Cult – An Incomplete SSL/TLS Bookmark Collection

daniel.molkentin.net

31–35 of 35 posts

Re: Fighting Cargo Cult – An Incomplete SSL/TLS Bookmark Collection

#31

Okay, I understand what he means about cargo culting, and that to really make your server secure you have to actually know what you're doing. But okay, let's be realistic here. Let s look at the real thing that just happened to me. I went and used the awesome tester at ssllabs.com that OP recommends. It told me that my server doesn't support newer cipher protocols that it should support, and that it doesn't support f…

This is yet another manifestation of the dark side of open source movement: the expectation that the generosity of the few must always support the comfort of the many. More than once I have commented that the only missing feature of GPL is that all free software must be distributed in source code, and compiled/build from scratch in every system it is to be deployed. Binary distribution requires a parallel form of lic…

Well, I don't need to pay $200, I can also Google around for standard configurations designed to meet the common needs of most customers -- plenty of people are more than happy to share all sorts of info on proper SSL configuration for free. As for instance, the OP.

But if I just find a configuration online and use it, am I 'cargo culting' as the OP warns me against? But then, am I doing the same thing if I pay someone for it instead of finding it online for free, am I still just 'cargo culting'? $200 or not, I'm still just taking what someone else gives me and plugging it in. I guess in either case it depends on who I get it from, and how I am deciding their reliability.

I don't think it's the 'dark side of open source' to suggest that apache would be doing a service to it's users by providing out-of-the-box config that's actually secure. I realize they don't 'owe' it to me, as they 'owe' me nothing at all, including continuing to provide httpd at all. But let's say httpd was completely unstable out of the box, crashing all the time, unless you used expert knowledge to configure it to be stable, possibly by paying an expert $200. Would it be the 'dark side of open source' to suggest that made it less high-quality software than it could be, that to be quality software it needs to be stable for most common use cases out of the box?

In 2014, I think expecting software that supports SSL to be actually secure out of the box for, as you say, 'common needs of most customers', is just the same as expecting it to be reasonably stable. Doesn't mean it will be, doesn't mean the open source developers 'owe' us anything, but users making their expectations and priorities clear is part of what influences developer priorities too.

But you know what, yeah, I'm going to go there, if in 2014 you are supplying software to users (whether open source or not, whether free-as-in-beer or not) that supports TLS/SSL, or any other crypo, then you _do_ have some responsibility to supply actually secure software, or you are doing a disservice to your users (whether or not they are paying you) and to the internet at large. I don't think this is actually a very controversial statement. Nobody has to supply crypto software, open source or proprietary, for free or for $. But if you are, then, yeah, you have some responsibilities to do it right. We can certainly disagree on what 'do it right' means, but few would disagree with the basic sentiment.

Re: Fighting Cargo Cult – An Incomplete SSL/TLS Bookmark Collection

#32

Okay, I understand what he means about cargo culting, and that to really make your server secure you have to actually know what you're doing. But okay, let's be realistic here. Let s look at the real thing that just happened to me. I went and used the awesome tester at ssllabs.com that OP recommends. It told me that my server doesn't support newer cipher protocols that it should support, and that it doesn't support f…

[deleted]

Re: Fighting Cargo Cult – An Incomplete SSL/TLS Bookmark Collection

#33
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for writing this post, I've bookmarked it for reading later as it has plenty of links and I can see I have a lot more reading to do. If you edit or update your post, I hope you will Mozilla's excellent "Security/Server Side TLS" page at https://wiki.mozilla.org/Security/Server_Side_TLS . This helped me get up to speed quickly and provided clear examples. As proof of how good the Mozilla docs are, I tested my p…

That's an excellent reference with good explanations. I'll add it to the list to get away from the strong Ivan bias :-). The reason why I had A- only is that my openssl (Debian) doesn't seem provide all the ciphers required.

It's probably your apache, actually; 2.2 can't do ECDHE, even though the openssl in Debian 7 can.

Sadly, this means IE doesn't get forward secrecy, because it can't do do DHE with RSA keys, only DSS.

Re: Fighting Cargo Cult – An Incomplete SSL/TLS Bookmark Collection

#34
post #16

TLS 1.0 was created in 1999, and has approximately 97.7% website support worldwide. The only modern browser that doesn't support TLS 1.0 is IE6. Please, do the public a favor and remove the name "SSL" from your list. Also, I get that you probably just found out what a cargo cult is, but there's really no purpose in telling people about the phrase; it doesn't help them stay more secure, and it's basically just pop psy…

About the Cargo Cult thing: Fair enough. I'm not a native speaker myself, but thought that it may be a well-enough-known idiom. Anyway, SSL is still what people know it under (plus, according to Wikipedia, TLS support was only added in Java 7, and there are still many Java 6 setups around which have to put up with SSL 3). So I'll stick with SSL/TLS for the time being.

Re: "Cargo Cult" as a well-enough-known idiom:

It's basically a shibboleth for "Are you a fan of Richard Feynman". I doubt very many people have actually heard of it directly, but his "Cargo Cult Science" commencement address (http://neurotheory.columbia.edu/~ken/cargo_cult.html) is moderately famous.

Re: Fighting Cargo Cult – An Incomplete SSL/TLS Bookmark Collection

#35

I have no idea what I am doing. Is my Digital Ocean - Default Ubuntu based server safe? I know I login via the shell using ssh from my OS-X and DO does not administrate the droplet I guess. Any advice on where I can educate myself?

We have a couple of resources to help you with that in our community:

https://www.digitalocean.com/community/questions/how-do-you-...

https://digitalocean.com/community/tags/security

Thanks! Moisey Cofounder DigitalOcean

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