Mark Cuban: The most patriotic thing you can do is "get rich" • Hacker News Board

Re: Mark Cuban: The most patriotic thing you can do is "get rich"

#31

Post by jonallanharper » Thu, Aug 13, 2009, 10:52 PM UTC

dschobel wrote: post #13

jsackmann wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most self-made rich people get there by (I'll bet you've heard this before...) making something people want. It's a rare buyer who buys something for $20 and values it at exactly $20 -- most buyers think it's worth a little more, or a lot more. That difference means that most purchases are not only beneficial to the maker/inventor (who is making money on the transaction), but also to the buyer (who believes their lif…

You're telling me that the guy who founded girls gone wild (and became fabulously wealthy thereby) did more good than someone like Eunice Shriver who never held a paid job in her life? The bottom line is that it's infinitely more important what you do with your wealth than whether it was handed to you or you earned it.

It's only "infinitely more important" in your false, theoretical reality.

Give me a Henry Ford or a porn producer any day over Mother Teresa.

It speaks volumes that you hold a person that "never held a paid job in her life" in higher esteem than an individual that actually created wealth.

The guy who founded girls gone wild produced far more of what people want than your useless social engineers.

Re: Mark Cuban: The most patriotic thing you can do is "get rich"

#32

Post by mikeryan » Thu, Aug 13, 2009, 10:54 PM UTC

jonallanharper wrote: post #14

"[when that tax bill comes your thought should be]... a recognition that in paying your taxes you are helping to support millions of Americans that are not as fortunate as you." Right, so I bust my ass in school, non-paid internships, contracting as much as possible, and 50 hour work weeks on my startup... and the reason I'm making money is b/c I'm more "fortunate" than the slob who is still playing video games in co…

Wow that's cold.

It's a bit ugly that you can loop everyone that can't afford healthcare, mental health issues or drug addiction into a single bucket and dispose of them.

Those who can afford to spend 6 years in college playing video games, rarely are the ones who are doing it on the gov't dime. Its the kids that grow up in crappy underprivileged neighborhoods with poor school systems and no guidance are the ones that need help. But hey its their parents fault right?

You sir, compassion less, and cold spirited and are the one I can do without.

Re: Mark Cuban: The most patriotic thing you can do is "get rich"

#33

Post by 321abc » Thu, Aug 13, 2009, 10:59 PM UTC

forinti wrote: post #24

jonallanharper wrote: post #14

"[when that tax bill comes your thought should be]... a recognition that in paying your taxes you are helping to support millions of Americans that are not as fortunate as you." Right, so I bust my ass in school, non-paid internships, contracting as much as possible, and 50 hour work weeks on my startup... and the reason I'm making money is b/c I'm more "fortunate" than the slob who is still playing video games in co…

It always amazes me how americans have the smallest social safety net of the developed world and are always blaming the unfortunate for eating up their taxes. You also work more hours than workers in other developed nations and yet still can't stop going on and on about lazy people.

Not to mention the daily stories of Wall St hustlers stealing billions, trillions of taxpayer dollars being given away as welfare to corporations (which promptly pay out billions in bonuses) and trillions pissed away on murdering tens of thousands of people in other countries, but people are all up in arms when some single mother gets a $100 in food stamps, or a Mexican risks death in the desert to come mow your lawn. Or god forbid that health care suddenly becomes affordable. That would be a true outrage!

There's really very little sense of proportion in this country.

Re: Mark Cuban: The most patriotic thing you can do is "get rich"

#34

Post by run4yourlives » Thu, Aug 13, 2009, 11:01 PM UTC

fallentimes wrote: post #27

run4yourlives wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They pay much more in taxes despite the fact that they do this. I'm pretty sure Warren Buffet proved otherwise: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/money/tax/article1996735.ec...

You're talking percent, he's talking gross.

I don't want to speak for him, but I'm pretty sure Cuban is talking percent too, given that he seems to be encouraging the paying of full taxes sans loopholes.

Re: Mark Cuban: The most patriotic thing you can do is "get rich"

#35

Post by Locke1689 » Thu, Aug 13, 2009, 11:02 PM UTC

jonallanharper wrote: post #22

noelchurchill wrote: post #12

I'm almost certain there there may be flaws in this though but: Isn't there a limited monetary supply at any given time? So the richer I get, the less rich other people become. Even after I pay rents and salaries and everything else, if I'm richer than I was before, then there is less wealth available for everyone else.

You've highlighted one of the most important fallacies in the modern liberal's mindset, in my opinion... PG touches on this: "The Pie Fallacy" in http://paulgraham.com/wealth.html My 2 cents on it: Wealth is created. Currency is a limited resource that represents that wealth. The value of a single unit of currency is increased every time more real wealth is created. Wealth is created when goods or services that peopl…

You've highlighted one of the most important fallacies in the modern liberal's mindset, in my opinion...

Completely unnecessary partisan drivel. The man asked a question and you made a useless generalization that shows, more than anything else, that you don't understand your opposition's socioeconomic philosophy.

However, you are correct, currency is simply a tangible representation of value. Wealth is not a zero-sum game. Consider a screwdriver. Physically, this screwdriver is simply its raw materials. However, by organizing the materials in the right way, this screwdriver becomes more than the some of its parts and increases its value accordingly. Thus, by selling this screwdriver for its perceived value, one can create wealth in the difference of costs vs. revenue. Of course, a simplistic example, but one that answers the question fairly well.

Edit: Maybe I should cite pg and get on the bandwagon...

Re: Mark Cuban: The most patriotic thing you can do is "get rich"

#36

Post by mcslee » Thu, Aug 13, 2009, 11:03 PM UTC

ckinnan wrote: post #26

nazgulnarsil wrote: post #2

demonizing the productive rich along with the hereditary wealth parasites is a fatal mistake for a civilization IMO.

There's a huge difference between the rich and high income earners. The rich/wealthy often favor higher taxes because their income is from tax-free bonds or from control of assets, where income is deferred and usually part of a one-time transaction, like sale of a company, where taxes can be avoided. High-income earners, on the other hand, often have negative net worth (school and housing debt). The rich want high ta…

This is an astute and important point. I have always found it flawed that a middle-class American family making around $100K in income will pay more taxes than someone with $10M+ portfolio of municipal bonds.

With that said, I agree with Mark Cuban's philosophy here, and do not get personally upset with paying taxes.

I don't think the solution is to complain about taxes on high income earners. Rather, there just needs to be more pressure on instituting equivalent taxes for other forms of wealth generation (i.e. get rid of tax-free bonds).

Re: Mark Cuban: The most patriotic thing you can do is "get rich"

#37

Post by jibiki » Thu, Aug 13, 2009, 11:03 PM UTC

jonallanharper wrote: post #31

dschobel wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're telling me that the guy who founded girls gone wild (and became fabulously wealthy thereby) did more good than someone like Eunice Shriver who never held a paid job in her life? The bottom line is that it's infinitely more important what you do with your wealth than whether it was handed to you or you earned it.

It's only "infinitely more important" in your false, theoretical reality. Give me a Henry Ford or a porn producer any day over Mother Teresa. It speaks volumes that you hold a person that "never held a paid job in her life" in higher esteem than an individual that actually created wealth. The guy who founded girls gone wild produced far more of what people want than your useless social engineers.

> The guy who founded girls gone wild produced far more of what people want than your useless social engineers.

Pablo Escobar produced far more of what people want than our hypothetical porn producer. Feynmann produced far, far less. What exactly is your point?

Re: Mark Cuban: The most patriotic thing you can do is "get rich"

#38

Post by decode » Thu, Aug 13, 2009, 11:04 PM UTC

He makes an argument for making money, but not for getting (or being) rich. What societal advantage is there to one person amassing wealth? It seems like Cuban is saying that if you create wealth, you can pass it on to others. So wouldn't that mean that it would be better for society if you were just a conduit for wealth, paying your employees, contractors, and suppliers as much as possible?

It seems like the most beneficial thing would be to "Hire people. Train people. Pay people. Spend money on rent, equipment, services." but not skim a bunch off the top for yourself.

Re: Mark Cuban: The most patriotic thing you can do is "get rich"

#39

Post by Locke1689 » Thu, Aug 13, 2009, 11:05 PM UTC

jonallanharper wrote: post #31

dschobel wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're telling me that the guy who founded girls gone wild (and became fabulously wealthy thereby) did more good than someone like Eunice Shriver who never held a paid job in her life? The bottom line is that it's infinitely more important what you do with your wealth than whether it was handed to you or you earned it.

It's only "infinitely more important" in your false, theoretical reality. Give me a Henry Ford or a porn producer any day over Mother Teresa. It speaks volumes that you hold a person that "never held a paid job in her life" in higher esteem than an individual that actually created wealth. The guy who founded girls gone wild produced far more of what people want than your useless social engineers.

Of course, this logic could also be applied to war profiteering.

The problem is that economics does not exist in an ideal world with no socio-moral ramifications.

Re: Mark Cuban: The most patriotic thing you can do is "get rich"

#40

Post by iterationx » Thu, Aug 13, 2009, 11:05 PM UTC

Getting rich by creating American jobs that manufacture goods that we sell to Asia and re-balancing the trade imbalance would improve the dollar strength and create American jobs, that'd be ok. If I get rich by putting Applebees out of business because I made a slightly better boneless buffalo wing, nothing would be gained.