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Confessions of a Full Stack DevOp

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Re: Confessions of a Full Stack DevOp

#31

Post by GFK_of_xmaspast »

_superposition_ wrote: post #14

Knupps idea of the totem pole rubbed me the wrong way too. I've met great developers who didn't have a clue about how to scale or monitor their software outside of their framework. How to properly deploy across DEV, UAT and PROD without making code modifications. How to keep these environments clean and flexible to enable these deployments. Nor should they have to. Call me a Dev because I read and write code. Call me…

Those don't sound like great developers to me. Those are the kind of people who are going to introduce subtle bugs and say 'welp, works on my machine closes ticket'

Re: Confessions of a Full Stack DevOp

#32

Post by RA_Fisher »

Great post. While I agree with this, "Automation shouldn't be about spending all your time with a tool ..." I wonder if employers are pressured to push you into more and more Ops work by this paradox? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox

This kind of situation, specifically (relative to other work): http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b8/JevonsPar...

Re: Confessions of a Full Stack DevOp

#33

Post by cmelbye »

_superposition_ wrote: post #21
billmalarky wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've met great developers who couldn't deploy code?

Sure. I've met great ones who could too. I don't think deployment is part of the development job description. Or is it?

To me, it seems like it makes sense that a great developer should absolutely know how his code is running, how his changes interact with the production environment in which the code runs, etc.

Re: Confessions of a Full Stack DevOp

#34

Post by secstate »

beat wrote: post #19
p8952 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my personal opinion this is what DevOps is, in fact "OpsDev" might even be a better word for it in most cases. It's about carrying out what are traditionally "Operations" tasks (Provisioning, Configuration, Orchestration, Monitoring, ect) using tools and workflows with are traditionally used by Developers (Version Control, Automated Testing, ect) In large companies this work is often carried out by operations peop…

In the traditional development/operations divide, developers often have no access to and little insight into the production environment where their code will be run. As such, they cobble together whatever makes it work, and then "throw it over the wall" to operations, where it has to run in a very different environment. This makes for hellish manual deployments, done on multi-day phone calls with ops staff who don't…

And this is why DevOps has gained traction. Automated deployments, continuous integration, and software that functions identically whether in development env or production.

You can wax poetic about how it used to be, or complain about people being overworked all you want, but that's an issue of expectations. Personally I never want to go back to two week "integration" processes and multi-day manual deployments.

DevOps to me is an exercise in not making things more complciated than they have to be on the config/deploy side.

Re: Confessions of a Full Stack DevOp

#36

Post by rch »

chris_mahan wrote: post #24
rch wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's just a euphemism for 'engineer'.

But you can't be an "engineer" without a Engineering degree from an accredited university, so DevOps.

Unfortunately, the profession is leading the credentialing at this point. I'd expect that to change in the next decade or so, ideally resulting in a useful PE designation (in the US anyway).

Re: Confessions of a Full Stack DevOp

#37

Post by dang »

simonw wrote: post #7

Pet peeve: this URL is incorrect. When you're linking to an article on a blog, it's important to use the permalink for the specific entry (in this case it's http://www.ansible.com/blog/confessions-of-a-full-stack-devo... which admittedly wasn't easy to find - you had to click the heading on the article which lacks any clear visual way to tell that it's a link). If you link to the blog homepage e.g. http://www.ansible…

Thanks. We changed it.

We'll soon have a new way for users to suggest better urls, like you did, that is more reliable than a moderator happening to see a comment. I'll announce it as a Tell HN.

Re: Confessions of a Full Stack DevOp

#38

Post by [deleted] »

simonw wrote: post #7

Pet peeve: this URL is incorrect. When you're linking to an article on a blog, it's important to use the permalink for the specific entry (in this case it's http://www.ansible.com/blog/confessions-of-a-full-stack-devo... which admittedly wasn't easy to find - you had to click the heading on the article which lacks any clear visual way to tell that it's a link). If you link to the blog homepage e.g. http://www.ansible…

[deleted]

Re: Confessions of a Full Stack DevOp

#39

Post by bowlofpetunias »

pradocchia wrote: post #8

The last time I looked for a senior sysadmin -- less than a year ago -- I didn't get anyone who was comfortable programming in Perl/Python/Ruby until I started using the term DevOps. [1] via TFA Ah, now I understand DevOps. Well, the sysadmin who can personally automate his job through programming--this is very productive person. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7593681

The sysadmin who can not personally automate his job through programming is not a competent sysadmin.

In between putting out fires and occasionally setting up new systems, this is what sysadmins have been doing long before the word "devops" came into being. Anything you had to do twice, write a script for it.

At least that's what I remember from my sysadmin days: automate the shit out of everything so we could spend more time on Usenet, IRC and reading BOFH stories. This of course to counterbalance having to be on call to fix issues at 2am on a Saturday.

Re: Confessions of a Full Stack DevOp

#40

Post by _superposition_ »

beat wrote: post #20
_superposition_ wrote: post #14

Knupps idea of the totem pole rubbed me the wrong way too. I've met great developers who didn't have a clue about how to scale or monitor their software outside of their framework. How to properly deploy across DEV, UAT and PROD without making code modifications. How to keep these environments clean and flexible to enable these deployments. Nor should they have to. Call me a Dev because I read and write code. Call me…

Nothing like finding urls (and even passwords) hardcoded in the source, huh? :) I try to make any developer who will listen to reason at all read the Twelve Factor App manifesto.

Nice. Never seen that manifesto. Just pushed it out to all my devs.
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