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Bootstrapping Abroad: why we do it and why it's awesome

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Re: Bootstrapping Abroad: why we do it and why it's awesome

#31
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hiring is not necessarily worse. In many countries (e.g. China), good engineers have a much lower market rate.

Agreed, why do many americans think other countries all have the exact same issues?

However to his credit the OP prefaced with "ok, here's what i like and dislike about living in argentina and starting up [...]". And his advice was obviously meant to apply for the Argentinian situation.

Re: Bootstrapping Abroad: why we do it and why it's awesome

#32

I wonder if you would end up with tax issues when doing this? As a US citizen would I pay tax abroad, or in the US, how difficult would it be to get the requisite visa, and most importantly, how many idea spots have fiber internet? It does sound intriguing though.

The US is one of very few countries in the world that taxes their citizens who live abroad. So yes, technically you'd be subject to pay income tax in both the US and the country you live in, but it is likely that there is a tax treaty with the host country that will let you deduct any local income taxes paid from your US taxes. In practice, this means that you will pay only one income tax (but file two returns).

As far as I can tell - having moved to Austria and acquired a tax specialist - this is backwards.

The US gets first dibs. At least they do in my situation. Then the full amount I pay to the US in tax (100%) is removed from the taxes I owe in Austria.

Simple example: Austria says I owe 20,000 euros. US says I owe $15,000. I pay the US $15,000. My tax burden in Austria is now approximately 20,000 - 10,000 euros (ballpark currency exchange) = 10,000. (This is assuming you crest theearned income waiver for expats, which is about $85,000 USD now.)

Basically, though, you have to hire a tax specialist. There's no way to manage it simply. And tax specialists with international experience are hard to find, but if you're coming from the US you'll have an easier time than if you're coming from a smaller country. Your best bet would be to contact one of the larger international firms, e.g. Deloit. I had to search for 9 mos to find one, myself.

(As an aside, I'm outraged that I have to pay US taxes at all.)

Re: Bootstrapping Abroad: why we do it and why it's awesome

#34

I wonder if you would end up with tax issues when doing this? As a US citizen would I pay tax abroad, or in the US, how difficult would it be to get the requisite visa, and most importantly, how many idea spots have fiber internet? It does sound intriguing though.

"If you meet certain requirements, you may qualify for the foreign earned income and foreign housing exclusions and the foreign housing deduction.

If you are a U.S. citizen or a resident alien of the United States and you live abroad, you are taxed on your worldwide income. However, you may qualify to exclude from income up to $87,600 of your foreign earnings. In addition, you can exclude or deduct certain foreign housing amounts."

It's much more complicated than this but that's the jist of it.

http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/international/article/0,...

Re: Bootstrapping Abroad: why we do it and why it's awesome

#35
post #7

ok, here's what i like and dislike about living in argentina and starting up a consulting business and building a product on the side. first, yes, it's cheaper, and yes, the wine i buy is better 100 fold than the states, and yes, i would say i've cut costs by about 40%. my kids didn't belong to a private club and take swimming and tennis lessons in seattle... so we're not taking advantage of the cost savings we could…

Ive lived, worked, created, operated and advised startups in Colombia, Chile, Argentina, and briefly, Peru (apart from the U.S.)

In my opinion and limited experience, these are the top 3 places to launch a tech startup:

1. Chile: Government, (CORFO, specifically) helps out a lot with grants even for off the wall tech startups, something I dont see in the U.S., however, it is expensive compared to its neighbors, but living costs are at around $800/mo comfortably (no dependents)

2. Argentina: Amazing and large tech community with presedence, tech Angels and VCs, lots of tech and startup meet ups and events. Most, if not all the main tech startups have come out of Argentina. Great talent. Day to day living costs are more expensive than Chile.

3. Colombia: Best bang for your buck, more business friendly, extremely good engineering talent that is very affordable, easy cultural fit and work ethic. However, not a lot of tech startup presedence and capital. See: Results of: 7 developers, working 24/7 for 90 days, 1 house (in Colombia) http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=730031

• The #1 obstacle for startups in Latin America (and I think most of the rest of the world) is the Government. In the U.S. it takes 1 or 2 days, $70, to incorporate an LLC, whereas in Latin America it can take from a week in chile to over 175 days in venezuela.

• Most countries demand that you have an actual physical office, killing the option of work from home/garage.

• There is correlation between the time it takes to incorporate and the corruption of a country.

Re: Bootstrapping Abroad: why we do it and why it's awesome

#36
post #18

This sounds like a bad idea for exactly the same reasons as starting up in a startup hub sounds like a good idea. 1) Easy to find and hire good people from your own network 2) Easy to raise money from connections in your own network 3) Easy to find accountants, lawyers, office space from your own network Starting a successful business is a fairly complicated and risky thing to do, why would you want to go live somewh…

These three points all revolve around this: your own network.

Which completely ignores the fact that working in this fashion means you are building an international network which opens up an entire world of opportunity.

You can keep your Valley network, thank you very much!

Re: Bootstrapping Abroad: why we do it and why it's awesome

#37
post #18

This sounds like a bad idea for exactly the same reasons as starting up in a startup hub sounds like a good idea. 1) Easy to find and hire good people from your own network 2) Easy to raise money from connections in your own network 3) Easy to find accountants, lawyers, office space from your own network Starting a successful business is a fairly complicated and risky thing to do, why would you want to go live somewh…

In my experience, building or joining a network for a tech startup when you come from abroad to another country is really easy.

It did not take me more than 2 weeks to get connected with the top lawyers, entrepreneurs, investors, accountants, talent, press and get complimentary access to office space.

At least that was my experience in Chile and Argentina, which have thriving and large tech startup communities.

Re: Bootstrapping Abroad: why we do it and why it's awesome

#38
post #24

I know it's completely off-topic and I'll burn some karma here... Using only titles on the current front page: "Steven Frank Gets [...] strangers to talk to [...] Google App Inventor [...] Phil Schiller [...] in Chinese Language [...] and why it's awesome"

Please don't. Karma is not intended for burning.
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